Imperial Guard Topic

[Dark Riku]

The fire shells of spotters are doing too much damage, i was using double spotter build, used double inc shells and the setup team died before he could de-setup

Was that in a 1v1?
Because if you go dual spotters in a 1v1 what's preventing your opponent from charging into you T1? And going to your genfarm to burn/dps it down?

[Kvek]

It was a 3v3 angel gate, but well i will need to try it in 1v1

[Major Richard Sharpe]

the Kasrkin Squad seems overly versatile at the moment, for example, the weapon upgrade options at the moment, seem borderline redundant due to the anti armour and anti infantry grenades each squad is already loaded out with. Thus, in my opinion, in order to prevent the squad becoming way to overkill, the speed should be nerfed back down to 5 (rather than 5.5), the weapon upgrades should all be removed, weapons expertise to be reworked into the base stats of the squad (aka, a passive buff), and the grenade (pack) then becomes an wargear upgrade (that one must pay for). as a second upgrade choice, there should be a 'speed buff' and/or 'sprint' ability added to it. i am however, very open to the option of having the possibility with the squad having BOTH upgrades at the same time....

In summary, remove all three weapon upgrades, rework weapons expertise buff into the squad naturally, nerf the speed, add 'grenade' wargear choice, and add 'speed buff' upgrade.

[Kvek]

Then do this to all t3 heavy ranged units.
They are not cheap, they are situational, leman is almost all the time better.
They drop down like flies.
Start speaking from 1v1 perspective also :p

[Torpid]

the Kasrkin Squad seems overly versatile at the moment, for example, the weapon upgrade options at the moment, seem borderline redundant due to the anti armour and anti infantry grenades each squad is already loaded out with. Thus, in my opinion, in order to prevent the squad becoming way to overkill, the speed should be nerfed back down to 5 (rather than 5.5), the weapon upgrades should all be removed, weapons expertise to be reworked into the base stats of the squad (aka, a passive buff), and the grenade (pack) then becomes an wargear upgrade (that one must pay for). as a second upgrade choice, there should be a 'speed buff' and/or 'sprint' ability added to it. i am however, very open to the option of having the possibility with the squad having BOTH upgrades at the same time....

In summary, remove all three weapon upgrades, rework weapons expertise buff into the squad naturally, nerf the speed, add 'grenade' wargear choice, and add 'speed buff' upgrade.

When a unit has to compete with IG t2, which now that chaos got such a massive t2 nerf, is probably the strongest t2 in the game (oops, eldar got loads of buffs, eldar has strongest t2) and the best tank in the game (leman) the squad needs to be versatile. I do wish that kasrkins didn't do burst damage and that they did more consistent damage. I don't mind their dps being so high, because they need to be competitive, however it's just really annoying on the receiving end of them where the engagement starts and bang ive lost two banshee models before I can even see what is shooting me.

[Dark Riku]

When a unit has to compete with IG t2, which now that chaos got such a massive t2 nerf,....

What massive T2 nerf?
Only "big change" I can think of their T2 is Letters not having heavy melee anymore
and that is even a buff vs (S)HI..

[Torpid]

When a unit has to compete with IG t2, which now that chaos got such a massive t2 nerf,....

What massive T2 nerf?
Only "big change" I can think of their T2 is Letters not having heavy melee anymore
and that is even a buff vs (S)HI..

LTGB, cloud, letters & plague marines (which together synergised pretty well before). All those changes are pretty significant to how chaos play. I mean the cheaper KCSM+ OP Cloud of retail basically guaranteed a win in the IG vs PC MU. Chaos t2 just isn't as versatile now.

[Dark Riku]

LTGB lost 1 fireball. That thing was just too much how it was.
Cloud isn't op anymore, it's fine right now.
PM's actually do anti-infantry dmg now with their bolters, they lost their ridiculous survivability. But are still very tanky and move faster now.
I don't see how chaos T2 lost any versatility with this. Every option is still there.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

PM's actually do anti-infantry dmg now with their bolters, they lost their ridiculous survivability. But are still very tanky and move faster now.

Plague Marines do 5.83 dps + 0.8 x 5 seconds. Aprox. 9.83 dps (not sure if correct) per model.

Not sure if we can call this "anti-infantry" damage, when a single Vanilla CSM member do 13.42 dps.

Yeah, they lost their ridiculous survivality, and now except you blob your units (then say hi to enemy AOE damage or artillery) the heal-on-death it's almost useless.

Now they move faster, but also his snare is weaker and last less than in retail.

But well, at least cost less in price and upkeep.

[Indrid]

Yeah PM were hit pretty hard in Elite, but they are cheaper to compensate. I usually get them because of thei-TEN THOUSAND PLAGUES UPON YOU.

[Dark Riku]

Yeah, they lost their ridiculous survivality, and now except you blob your units (then say hi to enemy AOE damage or artillery) the heal-on-death it's almost useless.

Now they move faster, but also his snare is weaker and last less than in retail.

But well, at least cost less in price and upkeep.

The heal/explosion still has it's uses.. be happy they even do that when they die :p

Eum, no, the snare has become stronger and lost 2 secs of time:
Missile launcher snare effect increased from 25% to 40%
Plague Marines missile snare effect decreased from 10 to 8 seconds
This is way better than the retail snare.

Their passive slow aura however, one of numerous other ability that they have,
got toned down a lil: Passive slow aura effect decreased from 30% to 20%

And yeah a price adjustment together with upkeep:
Plague Marines upkeep decreased from 12.75 to 10.2
And some other stuff like the death explosion tone down and speed buff:
Death explosion damage decreased from 80 to 50
Speed increased from 3.5 to 4.

[Maestro Cretella]

Chaos T2 definitely was nerfed, although I don't know if I would necessarily call it a "massive" one. More importantly, Chaos T2 has been changed in a way that requires Chaos players to manage the transition from T1 to T2 a bit differently.

Back in retail, the joke that was ironically true about Chaos AV was: all of T2 is AV; just buy anything. By comparison, Chaos AV is a much more delicate situation in Elite that can mean the difference between losing the game right at the start of t2, or staying in it. A lot of this has to do with the change to Bloodletters. Not only were they by far the highest dps out of the AV choices in retail, but now in Elite, investing in them as your first t2 purchase is quite a gamble because it continues to leave you without practical AV.

The change needed to be made to be honest, and I'm really glad it was. Heavy melee bloodletters supported by worship were just too much in retail. It also just makes the game more interesting.

[saltychipmunk]

blood letters were great really only in worship , without it my god they are squishy. You mess up a jump or a phase even once and you will be lucky to walk out with one model.

plus you can totally nade spike them since they advertise their jumps.

So its not like they didn't have their massive draw backs in retail

[Nuclear Arbitor]

nade spiking them is generally difficult. unless they teleport in next to a squad with grenades and not on another squad there isn't usually enough time to land a hit. it is possible though.

[Dark Riku]

Blood Letters got a health buff in Elite btw. (+200HP in total)

And they are most likely teleporting on top of a setup team.
Usually not the best idea to nade your own squads :p

[saltychipmunk]

there is truth to that , though in some rare cases the things they teleport on are not always a set up. Admittedly the only races that really have that spiking opportunity would possibly be a 3 guardian 2 plat build or a scout with sarge devastator build for sm.

still the fact that they advertise their jump does some what make it easier to prepare counters for them than other jump units.


200 hp does go a good way to fixing their fragility