Chaos Terminator Upgrade Idea

[flixlix10]

After seeing the work of Wise Windu with the empyreal abyss having different colors depending on the chosen hero/god, I had an idea. In the game, we see units from Khorne, Nurgle, Slaneesh and Tzeech...but there is one god that is missing...
That god is Malal (or Malice). This god is refered to as the renegade god and was "outcast" by the other gods because of his murderous tendencies, which would bring his warriors to kill chaotic forces. I heard that worshippers of Malal are extremely powerful, but suffer from a mind-breaking insanity and bloodlust and are extremely rare (like almost non-existant). So I thought that a new upgrade could be given to chaos terminators, one that could be linked to Malal.
I thought that maybe a warp-infused power-axe and deamon shield and an ability comparable to the Ravener alpha's first global (catalyst) combined with the ability of the genestealers (adrenal rush I think) with a little bit of the chaos dreadnought frenzy ability could be very interesting. Basically a massive damage, speed and damage resistance boost, with the consuming effect of the Catalyst global and the insanity break-out of the dreadnought's frenzy. They could be like the vanguard/sternguard veterants, replacing the unit entirely when the upgrade is complete.

[Swift]

SOrry, but I've seen so many like this, so I'm going to be the dick here and say it: Have you heard of something called balance? (Now everyone will comment how this is a great idea).

[flixlix10]

I'm not sure what you mean by balance... I mean, the frenzy thing could be a replacement for the TP...

[egewithin]

Chaos Termies already have melee upgrades and it works amazingly. Unnecessery.

[flixlix10]

I get that but still! specializations are always nice!
(Plus it's just a concept/idea/suggestion)

[Swift]

I get that but still! specializations are always nice!
(Plus it's just a concept/idea/suggestion)

It's not specialising when Lightning Claw Terminators exist and giving them shields makes them like Assault Terminators.

[flixlix10]

Lightning claws are meant to deal with large groups of infantry, but the thunder-hammer and storm-shields are meant to deal with more heavily armored targets.
What you're saying would mean that sternguard/vanguard veterans are just useless. SPESH MARHEENS tactical squads already have many weapons for specialization (plasma for heavy armor, flamer for infantry crowds, rockets for tanks) so why did they put in the veterans? THAT reason could be the exact same for Malal's chosen terminators.
(I guess that's a good name for 'em).

[Swift]

Lightning claws are meant to deal with large groups of infantry, but the thunder-hammer and storm-shields are meant to deal with more heavily armored targets.
What you're saying would mean that sternguard/vanguard veterans are just useless. SPESH MARHEENS tactical squads already have many weapons for specialization (plasma for heavy armor, flamer for infantry crowds, rockets for tanks) so why did they put in the veterans? THAT reason could be the exact same for Malal's chosen terminators.
(I guess that's a good name for 'em).

No, it's like taking the damage of lightning claws with the survivability of shields. Sternguard and Vanguard exist to better the underperforming units (unlevelled Space Marines late game) who upgrade to them, and provide diversity, which this upgrade does not.

[ChrisNihilus]

Slaanesh barely have screen time and there are still plenty of cool stuff that are not being included yet, and you want something from Malal, an obscure God that is not canon anymore and of which GW doesn't even have the copyright?

No.

[flixlix10]

YES! see, this guy understands! except ur talking about the wrong god. slaneesh has screen time. malal doesnt. more for malal.

[egewithin]

YES! see, this guy understands! except ur talking about the wrong god. slaneesh has screen time. malal doesnt. more for malal.

Slaanesh doesn't have his own hero, her own worship, his own icon, and his marks eather exept Blasmaster which I don't understand why we just don't call it mark of Slaanesh.

Also, Malal doesn't have a clear way to fight. Khorne is melee, Nurgle is area effect, Tzeentch is anti-armor and Slaanesh is tormenting and demorilizing (Noise Marines). What is Malal? An angry teen boy in his 15! '' Everyone hates me! I hate them too! I don't have any girlfriend because of my orange face so I shall blame everyone else but me! '' Seriously, Malal is only about rage and anarch. (you know what I mean). There isn't a clear way to fight for him.

[Atlas]

I am in full support of giving low model, high hp, and high attack speed units like ClawTerms the Frenzy upgrade from genestealers. Chaos doesn't have enough good options on their terminators. Also, we need to make sure the Space Marine terminators get this ability too since we can't leave them out and each variation of terminator needs to be the exact same.

[Ar-Aamon]

Hehe xD

[Swift]

I am in full support of giving low model, high hp, and high attack speed units like ClawTerms the Frenzy upgrade from genestealers. Chaos doesn't have enough good options on their terminators. Also, we need to make sure the Space Marine terminators get this ability too since we can't leave them out and each variation of terminator needs to be the exact same.

[ChrisNihilus]

Chaos Terminators don't have Marks.
They have equipment, and that's good.

If they ever need something Big C and his team can just give them an Icon as an alternative to the other two weapons, and let it do whatever they want it to do. It would be more interesting than just another weapon.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Chaos Terminators in the tabletop have marks. And the owner could dedicate himself to a Dark God.

It could be interesting to add marks to Chaos Terminators. CT with the Mark of Nurgle to have high HP regeneration and debuff the enemy, for example

The question is if is necessary.

[Cheekie Monkie]

Rename lightning claws to Mark of Khorne

Rename the autocannon to the Mark of Git Rekt

[flixlix10]

That's actually a good Idea! Mark of Khorn for autocanon (same as havoc), mark of Nurgle for claws (I thought the model of the claws could be modified to look like plague claws or something), mark of Slaneesh for a blast-master or sound-canon, mark of Tzeench for...um...wrist-mounted lascanons? And mark of Malal (or Malice) for power-axe and deamon-shield.

[Cheekie Monkie]

Exactly! In the meantime I think upgrades should work on an individual basis like DoW 1 - you buy a mark for only a single model and you can purchase additional marks for different models.

In this way you can have a squad with one terminator with a lightning claw, one guy with an autocannon and one guy with an exterminatus gun.

[ChrisNihilus]

That's actually a good Idea! Mark of Khorn for autocanon (same as havoc), mark of Nurgle for claws (I thought the model of the claws could be modified to look like plague claws or something), mark of Slaneesh for a blast-master or sound-canon, mark of Tzeench for...um...wrist-mounted lascanons? And mark of Malal (or Malice) for power-axe and deamon-shield.

Rename lightning claws to Mark of Khorne

Rename the autocannon to the Mark of Git Rekt

Oh please. Now you want to nerf the Chaos Terminators too?
Having a Mark instead of Equipment means they have to be inactive floating mid air during the upgrade.
They are Terminators, you usually call them the second you need them, and you may want to start the upgrade as soon as they hit field, in the middle of a battle.

There is a reason why they don't have them.

mark of Slaneesh for a blast-master or sound-canon

This then. Slaanesh is not all about Sonic Weapons.
Why, when someone say MoS, all people can think is Sonic Weapons?
The claws are one of the most-Slaaneshi weapons in the lore, and you suggest freaking Nurgle.
You know nothing of the gods and yet you need a fifth god.

[Swift]

Chris, I detected some time back that responses to this thread might have been slightly taking the piss. But of course if I'm wrong I'm happy to see anyone else's way.

[flixlix10]

Sorry ChrisNihilus. I, indeed, do not know a lot about the lore behind the gods of chaos. I didn't mean to enrage you to the point of you literally bashing on me over an idea/suggestion/concept for the chaos terminators. I thought about Nurgle for the claws because of the splash damage (someone mentioned that Nurgle was about AOE so...). For the Slaneesh/sound relation, it's probably because the noise marines are the only Slaneesh-related thing that many of us know (not talking for everyone, I know that some people know a lot more about Slaneesh armies). I only started this thread to tell my idea for a representation of Malal in the game, other then the Son of Malice CSM chapter. Again, sorry for all the fuss that this thread caused. Just wanted to share an idea.

[Atlas]

Exactly! In the meantime I think upgrades should work on an individual basis like DoW 1 - you buy a mark for only a single model and you can purchase additional marks for different models.

In this way you can have a squad with one terminator with a lightning claw, one guy with an autocannon and one guy with an exterminatus gun.

WP my good man.


But seriously, there's no need for Chaos term buffs. Their weapons are more than fine as they are. Malal has not had a real presence in 40k for quite some time. This mod is about making a balanced experience first and then adding cool shit. We try to have both but this is a case where we pick the former over the latter.

[ChrisNihilus]

Chris, I detected some time back that responses to this thread might have been slightly taking the piss. But of course if I'm wrong I'm happy to see anyone else's way.

I do realize i have so much less tolerance than before.
I did left the forum and the game for a few months, but it seem that it didn't help.

I apologies.

Sorry ChrisNihilus

My fault.

For the Slaneesh/sound relation, it's probably because the noise marines are the only Slaneesh-related thing that many of us know (not talking for everyone, I know that some people know a lot more about Slaneesh armies)

Emperor's Children (and similar all Slaaneshi warbands have):
[*]Speed. High reflexes and higher senses, but they also have some of the best bikers and raiders in humanity. EC bikers were pretty feared before the heresy.
[*]Duelist. Khorne is about violence but Slaanesh is about the art of war. Lucius is just one, but a lots of Slaaneshi Champion tried to emulate him and Fulgrim. They have the best fighters of Chaos. They enjoy fast and skillful weapons, like swords, claws and spears.
[*]Tech. Slaanesh is the only god that is known to have a full sized Forge World. They love tech, especially bio-engeeniring.
[*]Medicine. Fabius is just the most famous example, but like with Lucius, many have followed his example. Slaaneshi warbands usually maintain the Apothecaries they had before. In TT you can replace the Icon of Excess bearer with a chaos apothecary. Emperor's Children have 20 extra organs instead of 19 like all the other Astartes (and sometimes even more). This is why they appreciate the Dark Mechanicum and the Apothecaries; because they can improve them.
[*]Sonic Weapons, but that's more like an Emperor's Children thing than a Slaaneshi. Their ForgeWorld produce sonic weapons for all warbands they can reach, but it's still more an EC thing. Slaanesh in general is far more about fast melee weapons than sonic weapons.

Son of Malice

People use Grey Knights in TableTop to play as Sons of Malice, because of their hate of daemons and small size but elite armies.
Malal hate the other gods and all daemons.

[flixlix10]

Wait...Malal hates deamons? But I thought he had deamons of his own called butchers... I knew that other chaos gods hated him because he grew in power only when they did too and because his followers killed other chaos units in their pure madness/insanity, but I didn't know HE hated the other chaos gods.

(Also, isn't Malal the god of anarchy? Like, REAL chaos? The kind of chaos that doesn't have any kind of organisation and that exists only to fuck up everything in the galaxy? I don't know for sure °___° )

[egewithin]

Exactly! In the meantime I think upgrades should work on an individual basis like DoW 1 - you buy a mark for only a single model and you can purchase additional marks for different models.

In this way you can have a squad with one terminator with a lightning claw, one guy with an autocannon and one guy with an exterminatus gun.

Wow! Not so fast! You want something that doesn't even exist in the game now. I wantted to see tacs. with all their 3 guns on their 3 models when I played DoW2 first, but then I realised the new mechanics of game, and they were fun eather.

Rename the autocannon to the Mark of Git Rekt

What?

Also, axe and shield... Yeah, look, we already have melee upgrade for Termies okay? Unnecessary. Do other units have upgrades like ; '' Oh I have a plasma gun to counter heavy infantry, lets have a better plasma gun to counter more! '' Seriously, what do you want? Let's look trom this way : Claws are giving you

+ Extra health
+Unbelivble amounts of power melee
+Splash damage (If I remember right)
+Amazing attack speed

What does axe and shield gives you? Axe is slow first of all. Also, shield in not the way of Chaos. Chaos Sapce Marines are traditionally have less health but always doing more damage than loyal Astartes. Also, they are doing more melee damage generally for all infantry. After all, I haven't seen a Chaos Terminator with shield yet. If there exists, please call me back.

Seccondly ; the mark problem. In my opinion, a melee upgrade should called as Mark of Khorne. I know that ( even some of us doens't know these yet ) Slaaneshi guys are capable for melee and they are the best swordsmens of Chaos. But, let's be honest, no one can say Slaanesh deserves a melee upgrade name more than Khorne. The problem here, if we name Claws as Mark of Khorne, what we will call autocannon upgrade than?..

Other marks... Every upgrade has a reason to exist. Autocannon counters everything! Vehicle, infantry, building... Everything so I don't really think that other marks are necessery.

[ChrisNihilus]

Wait...Malal hates deamons? But I thought he had deamons of his own called butchers... I knew that other chaos gods hated him because he grew in power only when they did too and because his followers killed other chaos units in their pure madness/insanity, but I didn't know HE hated the other chaos gods.

(Also, isn't Malal the god of anarchy? Like, REAL chaos? The kind of chaos that doesn't have any kind of organisation and that exists only to fuck up everything in the galaxy? I don't know for sure °___° )

He was the god of anarchy, self destruction, paradoxes, also known as the "Renegade God", and his sole purpose is to kill the other gods.

In the comic were they introduce Malal, back in 1985, he set his best champion, Kaleb Daark, to kill another minor god (at the time the big 4 were the Major Gods of Chaos, while there was a swarm of other minor Gods), and he gave him his Axe, one that feeds on other daemons souls.

The comic was shut down before the 4th comic came out.
Kaleb Daark was going to have a model too, there are rules too, i believe to have those in some old Citadel Journal (but are surely very old and unplayable) but i'm too lazy to search.

EDIT: I don't have to search

eccondly ; the mark problem. In my opinion, a melee upgrade should called as Mark of Khorne. I know that ( even some of us doens't know these yet ) Slaaneshi guys are capable for melee and they are the best swordsmens of Chaos. But, let's be honest, no one can say Slaanesh deserves a melee upgrade name more than Khorne.

I say that.
In tabletop, if you play Claws it's the MoS that you want.
You use the MoK with low attack high power weapons, like the PowerFist and the Power Axe.
Claws are always played with the Mark of Slaanesh.

Mark of Slaanesh and his/her deamons are all about melee, exactly like Khorne. No less.

[Sturnn]

Exactly! In the meantime I think upgrades should work on an individual basis like DoW 1 - you buy a mark for only a single model and you can purchase additional marks for different models.

In this way you can have a squad with one terminator with a lightning claw, one guy with an autocannon and one guy with an exterminatus gun.

I would like to remind you that in DoW 1 was much more models per squad. If you want to make such upgrades you should allow other races to do the same

[Cheekie Monkie]

Chris, I detected some time back that responses to this thread might have been slightly taking the piss. But of course if I'm wrong I'm happy to see anyone else's way.

WP my good man.

Thanks guys, no one else seems to get my awesome jokes

[Swift]

I think everyone here apart from Cheeki, Atlas and Chris needs to know that the enxt step forward is to make Elite larger, big units, big guns = big battles. I'm not talking squad sizes, we just make termies one hundred times the size they are and give them an uber-lasgun. 5 DPS FOTM? Could have on hit effect too, like making the map turn upside down.

Much balance, such Kappa.