Inqusitorial Operative (WIP)

[Caeltos]

ADDED Inquisitorial Operatives


PROS
* Very effective at dealing with infantry squads
* Can quickly kill off enemies who are caught off-guard by their grenades
* Effective at taking down targets at medium/close range

CONS
* Very Fragile
* Can be costsome to reinforce if lost in an overbundance
* Poor firing range , which makes them weak against the default (38) ranged shooters


T1 - cost 225/30 Health - 600 (4 models Infantry Type) 12 pop , range 30 , 12 dps piercing_pvp dps
Inquisitorial Operatives (Operative) - Scout/Short Range firepower
Inquisitorial Operatives have a good sustained dps , compared to stormtroopers who are more dependant on burst damage.
The Inquisitorial Operatives are profficient agents of the Inquisition, able to scout out the enemy and plan ahead for the battles to come. They are able to switch to whichever task that is needed of them, to dislodge an incoming attack - or to lay waste to the enemy backlines.

Abilities
Infiltrate - Renders the squad invisible until it is toggled off. Cost 10 energy
Grenade Assault - Each member throws 2 and (1) smoke grenades at the target location. Inflicting 30 explosive_pvp damage and knockback in radius 4.5 . The Smoke reduces weapon & sight range by 90% and takes 80% less damage from ranged fire for 8.5 seconds.
Fallback Plan - The Squad breaks retreat and gets prepared to relocate quickly. Grants +3 speed and takes 80% less damage for 5 seconds. Cooldown 120s
Repair - The Squad can initiate repairs, altho they are not quite as profficient as other soldiers at the task. Repairs the target structure or vehicle for 5 hp/s

Upgrades
Safety Measures - Unlocks the "Fallback Plan" ability and the squad now passively throws out a smoke bomb whenever they retreat.

Numbers are tentative, as well as abilities.

TL;DR
Operatives can act as soft-counter for setup teams, dislodge garrisoned units and have good sight range, but poor firing range - which means they can pick and choose their fights. They can also retreat and reposition themselves to counterattack, or relocate and seize map control.

[egewithin]

Coool. Now we have a set up team counter insted of Inteseptors. So, I don't see a problem for moving them to T3.

[lolzarz]

So basically Grey Knight catachans. OK then.

[Atlas]

It looks like the Fallback Plan ability was inspired by the Elysian Droptroops thread talking about a similar temporary speed boost which is interesting. I'm assuming that you don't need to execute a member to have it work?

Even if you do just think of them as catachans for GK, these are some super cheap catachans. They go for the same price as an IG HWT which can come out super fast. That 30 range for attack is going to really hurt as it is also the usual range for detectors to detect as well. Still, 48 dps for the whole squad puts it right around tac levels of dps.

I can honestly see some ist-strike-ist-ops-ops builds for t1. They don't seem to have a really reliable anti-melee ability like purgations do so having 2 of them should not only threaten against a blob push but also put out good enough dps to force off a jump squad now. How good are operatives in melee in terms of dps and melee skill? They're right in the ballpark of scouts and rangers in terms of tankiness too and their bleed is between shotgun scouts and ranger models.

If there's really any comparison to an existing squad, I would say Operatives work akin to fully upgraded shotgun scouts. And considering how good those are and what cost SM needs to get those well.... you can see the possibilities.

The real big question mark on first read through is why this unit can repair at all. Do ISTs just not get the job done?

[Cheekie Monkie]

IST nade barrage -> Fall back plan -> Throw grenades

Problum?

Still though, wondering how GK will counter mass melee in T1 without purgs.

Edit: How would ops scale into the mid/late game?

[Dalakh]

Fallback Plan - The Squad breaks retreat and gets prepared to relocate quickly. Grants +3 speed and takes 80% less damage for 5 seconds. Cooldown 120s

I'm confused by this. So that means you can rush the enemy, take zero damage and drop a nade assault on their face ?

What would the melee capabilities of the squad be ? Like scout level ?

[sterling]

You want to use the "Acolyte" model for these guys or are you thinking of something different visuals wise?

Also what weapons would they use? As I think I'd have to make some variations to a couple of weapon models so they can hold them properly.

[Caeltos]

The Acoloytes is for a different unit. The Operatives model is already complete, their actual gun is undecided, but currently it's set to be a regular lasgun.

Fallback Plan damage reduction might be too long. The intended goal is to allow the Operatives to merely relocate quickly within the duration to find a better vantage point.

Their melee dps is quite poor. And as for as "Grenade Assault" goes, it was originally intended to be a "Luv da Dakka" which allowed the squad to suppress/slow squads. However, I tried to make it a toggle on/off mode, but my concerns were that it would be to forgiving on the player to utilize, and the potential for mass operatives in 2s/3s to cause alot of anti-fun experience. Grenade Assault can still be counter-played with awareness. So currently as it stands, their low-mid range damage output is quite powerful for a T1, but they have scaling issues. (Which is intended) but they have Grenade Assault to make up for it, as well as the repair tool to allow some minor transitional useage of them without feeling the immediate urge to sacrifice them.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Wow akin to their lore , so what i always wanted in IST is finally here... .utilities . So IST operatives will replace regular IST nxt time? GK very own Scouts. No more GL IST & triple IST then, so only melee CC for GK in just the shotguns of IST in t1 ?

[Dark Riku]

As far as I can tell, IST are still in the game
These new guys are an extra T1 unit.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

As far as I can tell, IST are still in the game
These new guys are an extra T1 unit.

NO0oooooooooooooo, replace em @_@,I LIKE THIS NEW IST BRUH

[Cyris]

Thanks a ton for this preview Cael! I have a lot of faith in you and the team. I will admit that I'm still not excited by this unit replacing purg/int. I see people comparing them favorably to scouts and catas, but I don't see it. I'm not going comment much, cause I really just wanna try it and see. I would rather be wrong!

My number one concern is about their scaling into T2. SS and IST are already not great at scaling, and the Rhino is getting it's potent las-cannon nerfed (rightly so) as well as it's armor nerfed. This leaves GK with maybe half a strongly scaling T1 unit, and no vehicle snare in T2. Paying 225/30 for a tac squad worth of ranged dps is super great, and the elusiveness of stealth plus retreat breaking (and buffs!) is sure going to be strong in T1. I'm just so afraid of falling flat down come T2 if I invest in it, especially to early vehicle.

::fingers crossed::

Edit:
On further thinking...

SS scaling is going to get a nice chunk better in T2 with the patch. Proper melee counter on the Energy Burst and a much needed bump on the psy-cannon damage are happening in addition to more units benefiting for purification (purg, libby healing, purifier CD, heck even giving energy to SpecOps.) I didn't need more reasons to make the SS Justicar first every game, but now I got em

If Crusaders/Acolytes ever come out (and move SS to a 1.5 power costing unit) they are going to combo super well with SpecOps.

The casting speed, flight time, range, cost, AOE, spread and if they do freindly fire on the grenade ability is going to be full on make or break for this guy.

SM style smoke (debuffs allies too) feels just so super awkward. I'm giving enemy melee squads who I disrupt 80% damage reduction? If I retreat while too close to my SS/IST then I'm going to debuff them?

I'd like to see repair removed in T1, and get a T2 upgrade that gives full 10 hp/s repair. I think having the option to invest in his role as a support in T2 (as opposed to a ninja!) will give him nice utility scaling. I could totally see such an upgrade removing Stealth.

[Cyris]

Wow akin to their lore , so what i always wanted in IST is finally here... .utilities . So IST operatives will replace regular IST nxt time? GK very own Scouts. No more GL IST & triple IST then, so only melee CC for GK in just the shotguns of IST in t1 ?

Did you really think GK T1 roster was going to be 3 units

[Swift]

Grenade Assault

Been playing too much COH 2?

Looks good to me, too early for me to say how this will work out apart from that I like these funny changes being thrown about and we'll see how they pan out.

[ChrisNihilus]

Safety Measures - Unlocks the "Fallback Plan" ability and the squad now passively throws out a smoke bomb whenever they retreat.

Smart.

Inquisitorial Operatives (Operative) - Scout/Short Range firepower

Aren't those a little too similar in concept to Inquisitorial StormTroopers?

The seems even more StormTrooper-y than the StormTroopers themselves, to the point that IS models/name seems to belong to the IO stats and viceversa.

[Swift]

The seems even more StormTrooper-y than the StormTroopers themselves, to the point that IS models/name seems to belong to the IO stats and viceversa.

From what I've noticed they seem to be a mirror of Special Operations/Scavenge Strum Pioneers (from Company of Heroes 2) if Sturm Pioneers could use Grenade Assault.

Why?:
- Four man squad of rapid firing infatry which deal damage over time rather than bursts at shorter range
- Can use Grenade Assault (a specific ability in CoH 2)
- Can repair vehciles (not as well as Sturm Pioneers)

Except in this instance they aren't uber buff builders but actual assault troops. Liking this.

[Caeltos]

Added two screenshots to show the model.

[Helios]

Not that i'm complaining or anything, but aren't we throwing just a few too many regular human units into GK? Don't Imperial Guard that witness Grey Knights get executed so that they stay a secret? It almost feels like the faction is Witch Hunters more so than GK. I think Caeltos DID say he was looking to incorporate more of that aspect into them but lore-wise it seems to come into conflict with the intent of keeping them a myth. I can see the Vindicator (and the potential Culex) assassins being so isolated and then put into sleep that they can't exactly blab it to anyone and IST are so remotely deployed that they may not even know they're working alongside Grey Knights, but w/e I guess.

The unit itself, looks neat but I still see it being more overlap just like how ST and Kasrkin seem to also overlap in roles.

[viggih]

Not that i'm complaining or anything, but aren't we throwing just a few too many regular human units into GK? Don't Imperial Guard that witness Grey Knights get executed so that they stay a secret? It almost feels like the faction is Witch Hunters more so than GK. I think Caeltos DID say he was looking to incorporate more of that aspect into them but lore-wise it seems to come into conflict with the intent of keeping them a myth. I can see the Vindicator (and the potential Culex) assassins being so isolated and then put into sleep that they can't exactly blab it to anyone and IST are so remotely deployed that they may not even know they're working alongside Grey Knights, but w/e I guess.

The unit itself, looks neat but I still see it being more overlap just like how ST and Kasrkin seem to also overlap in roles.

You could kill every operative that sees a Grey Knight. For everything else, there's Mind-wiping.

[Swift]

Not that i'm complaining or anything, but aren't we throwing just a few too many regular human units into GK? Don't Imperial Guard that witness Grey Knights get executed so that they stay a secret? It almost feels like the faction is Witch Hunters more so than GK. I think Caeltos DID say he was looking to incorporate more of that aspect into them but lore-wise it seems to come into conflict with the intent of keeping them a myth. I can see the Vindicator (and the potential Culex) assassins being so isolated and then put into sleep that they can't exactly blab it to anyone and IST are so remotely deployed that they may not even know they're working alongside Grey Knights, but w/e I guess.

The unit itself, looks neat but I still see it being more overlap just like how ST and Kasrkin seem to also overlap in roles.

You could kill every operative that sees a Grey Knight. For everything else, there's Mind-wiping.

Well Cael stated elsewhere he wanted to make the GK roster function more around humans early game and make the actual power armoured units a novelty sort of thing. Also considering how Grey Knights started life as Daemonhunters, it's not like none of this is canon.

[Caeltos]

The inquisition maintains a string of fortresses scattered throughout the galaxy, some hidden, some extremely well known and the object of numerous dark legends. Inquistorial stormtroopers are charged with the protection and security of the inquisition fortresses and the infamous Black ships as they make their purity checks throughout the imperium.
Recrouited from the Schola Progenium and trained in a similar fashion to the elite stormtroopers of the Imperial guard. Stormtroopers undertake rigorous purity and incurruptibility tests before they are permitted to bear the Inquistorial mark, making them preferable to use in Daemonhunters forces where the number of Grey Knights available may be insufficient."

Anything that pretty much has any label of Inquisition has a very high chance of being pretty much uncorruptable, and those who are in the risk zone, are simply killed off. (I do believe some of the Inquisitorial Stormtroopers run a risk of this as well tho, so this may conflict with the Daemonhunter Stormtrooper Codex entry text, which is the one above)

Acolytes who are in the service of a Inquisitor is pretty much fanatical follower, I believe they undergo brainwashing (as a LAST resort) or interrogation depending on the aftermath of what happend.

Treat Inquisitorial Operatives roughly the same way you would treat the Stormtroopers. The Inquisition is a big branch to cover, and I doubt they'd want ro rigorously just kill off anyone that encountered the Grey Knights. The Armageddon War is evident to the case, that just because you've encountered a Grey Knight, you're not neccassarily sentenced immedatiately to death. (Altho the poor citizens were put into work to rebuild until they died). I believe it varies depending on somewhat the situation at hand, weither the discretion is absolutely essential or not.

And yes, the goal is to make more general Inquisitiorial units put into action. This does put more empthasize on Daemonhunt, rather than the Grey Knights only, which is in my opinion, the better route to take to put more diverse units & gameplay into the mixture. More creative freedom, as well as differentiate abit from the Space Marines & Chaos Space Marines (altho, rather than Inquisitorial units, Chaos utilizes daemons, but they're very melee-oriented, whereas the Inquisitiorial arsenal presents a much wider flexibility, where we can put range/melee/utility into action)

[Cyris]

I may have some balance and build diversity concerns, but the fluff of the GK faction is going to be so much stronger and interesting in this patch.

A beachhead of Inquisitorial special forces investigates a situation, identifies threats to the Imperium, sticks to the shadows and kites, takes some pot shots with Vindicare Assassins, and ultimately calls for backup of GK Terminators to clean up. Awesome.

Heck, maybe the faction could be labeled as The Inquisitorial Forces or somesuch?

[Caeltos]

I may have some balance and build diversity concerns, but the fluff of the GK faction is going to be so much stronger and interesting in this patch.

A beachhead of Inquisitorial special forces investigates a situation, identifies threats to the Imperium, sticks to the shadows and kites, takes some pot shots with Vindicare Assassins, and ultimately calls for backup of GK Terminators to clean up. Awesome.

Heck, maybe the faction could be labeled as The Inquisitorial Forces or somesuch?

Yes, it's partially a theme that I want to try to incorporate. Much akin to how I went about to incorporate abit more Tyranid feel into their gameplay, primarily through the "Infestation" pillar, which is what would happend to a planet after the Tyranids started their invasion. It would gradually tyrannoform and become more "alien".

Grey Knights/Daemonhunt would consist primarily of Inquisitorial Agents/Soldiers/etc then send in the big guns gradually. This means their scaling would be progressive, but still have defensive/pressure/control playstyles available at all the tiers, to allow each player to play whichever game they would want, but they would all go down the same route of progression.

If that makes any sense?

[Spartan717]

I may have some balance and build diversity concerns, but the fluff of the GK faction is going to be so much stronger and interesting in this patch.

A beachhead of Inquisitorial special forces investigates a situation, identifies threats to the Imperium, sticks to the shadows and kites, takes some pot shots with Vindicare Assassins, and ultimately calls for backup of GK Terminators to clean up. Awesome.

Heck, maybe the faction could be labeled as The Inquisitorial Forces or somesuch?

Like "Ordo Malleus"

[ytimk]

First off - this preview is a testament to the awesomeness of Cael and the mod crew. A new unit introduced with thought and better game experience in mind holy crap you guys put pro devs to shame.

Eagerly awaiting further developments. And bugger the fluff/canon, don't go with the purists do what you think makes the game better . Your reasoning for the new GK style of differentiated play is pretty enticing.

[ChrisNihilus]

12 dps piercing_pvp dps

poor firing range

Shotguns?

[Caeltos]

Not planned to have shotguns, nor the range. It's slightly above. Think Kommando (prior to the nerf) range. SMG' like.

[ChrisNihilus]

You can always give them a Shotgun with solid slugs.
Firing sound of a shotgun but with only one projectile, pretty common in the 40k lore.

Another lasgun with different range and dps create confusion (and it's a little boring).

Then again, with the stats you give them, the smoke bombs, and the fact that they look and feel a little to much like StormTroopers right now, maybe you can go a little further and make them as the Adeptus Arbites.

It's pretty common for an Inquisitor to take command of the local Arbites, to immediately have a pretty zealous and already equipped force to field.
The model is already quite similar, you just need the helmet and a couple of details.

[Torpid]

And with a fast firing shotgun like such you could justifiably increase their damage based on proximity like scout shotguns and...

[Caeltos]

The Adeptus Arbites are more of a law-enforce rather than a part of the Ordo Malleus branch, or the Inquisition. They can work alongside with an Inquisitior, but they are not the best of combination. It doesn't make much sense to throw them into the bag of my intended envision of what they're suppose to be.

I also don't want them to be completely superior in all regards to the scout shotguns, and having damage proximity would just complicate the balance in how I want the damage proximity to work, so I'm not really considering it. They will have roughly 45-50 sight range (potentially more even) with a range of ~30.

The way the damage done by shotguns, whereas rapid firing weapons is also different. For an example, a shotgun deliverers high damage, with a small interval between the damages. It may be "sustained", but there's the small window still between shots, since they have no burst duration.

We've been tinkering with how to make weapon properties change as to how they are visually, as well as change their properties from say - sustained dps into burst, or vice versa. But what usually happends is, that the weapon breaks, or the audio is missmatched, or no audio at all.