Request for more Pre-Heresy schemes

[DarnedDragoon]

Lets start this thread by saying the Elite mod is pretty damn awesome, and it has only gotten better with more the ascetically pleasing space marine elite schemes that are added on to it. I particularly enjoy what has been done with Space Wolves and Salamanders chapters. I find the game so much more immersive in fact that I would like to humbly request for more elite schemes. In particular I've been craving, since seeing the "Flight of the Eisenstein" and "Galaxy in Flames" book covers, a Pre-Heresy elite scheme of the Death Guard Legion. Something more than just repainted existing retail, dlc, or elite schemes. For example the standard bolter changed to a Phobos Pattern:

or Umbra Pattern:

seen on forgeworld.co.uk.
Also MKIV ASMs seen here:

and Deathshroud/Grave Warden Terminators!!! I'm getting carried away here I know, but what do you guys think? Can these modifications be done and implemented, can a commission be negotiated, and more importantly would you guys like to see them?

[Swift]

I'm going to be the dick who ahs to say this, but you know the modders don't have unlimited tiem and people like Sterling are working on the new Operatives etc. so whilst you're requesting them, most people don't have the time to deliver them yet.

[DarnedDragoon]

I don't think you're being a dick. You probably just don't understand what I am asking. I know there are a lot talented modders out there and as you say many of them might not have time to do what I am asking. Though you cannot claim that for all modders. If Sterling is not interested or doesn't have enough time that's his prerogative that he nor anyone else needs to inform me of. I was simply asking those modders who would be interested in making the mod along the lines that I proposed. That being said if you're interested, Swiftsabre, in helping this idea become a mod maybe you can ask modders you may know to see if they are interested.

[Wise Windu]

The Operative is already done actually Garrick made a model a while ago that he kindly allowed us to use.

Sterling is actually currently working on some stuff, which I'll let him announce in his thread when he's ready to.

As for the other stuff, it all kind of depends on if Sterling has time or wants to do them. Or if someone else with modeling experience shows up and wants to help out without being paid . Which would be awesome. I'd love to see more DLC skins as well, but again it all depends on people who are willing to put the time in to make stuff for free. And currently, without new base models being made really, it all depends on what models are available.

[Atlas]

I thought the Luna Wolves scheme was designed from the start to be able to be converted into whatever pre-heresy scheme you wanted by just altering the defaultchaptercolors.lua?

If anything, I'd say that we need more Eldar and Tyranid schemes to come home for some more variety.

[DarnedDragoon]

Or if someone else with modeling experience shows up and wants to help out without being paid . Which would be awesome. I'd love to see more DLC skins as well, but again it all depends on people who are willing to put the time in to make stuff for free. And currently, without new base models being made really, it all depends on what models are available.

Ah I was reading the Terms of Service early trying to figure out if you can pay for a mod or not. I must admit the legal mumbo jumbo kind of went over my head, and I wasn't clear if you can commission for mods or not. I infer from your post, Wise Windu, that it is not legal to commission a mod?

[sterling]

The way I did the pre-heresy scheme was supposed to be quite generic and not use any Luna Wolves specific models so that if people want to they can edit the defaultchaptercolours file and set the pre-heresy scheme to whatever legion they like - a death guard or emperors children version would look pretty sweet I imagine. The current scheme does use an old style bolter now too.

As for the future I'm not planning on any more space marine packs - they already have loads and other factions, Eldar in particular, need a bit of love.

[DarnedDragoon]

I thought the Luna Wolves scheme was designed from the start to be able to be converted into whatever pre-heresy scheme you wanted by just altering the defaultchaptercolors.lua?

If anything, I'd say that we need more Eldar and Tyranid schemes to come home for some more variety.

The way I did the pre-heresy scheme was supposed to be quite generic and not use any Luna Wolves specific models so that if people want to they can edit the defaultchaptercolours file and set the pre-heresy scheme to whatever legion they like - a death guard or emperors children version would look pretty sweet I imagine. The current scheme does use an old style bolter now too.

As for the future I'm not planning on any more space marine packs - they already have loads and other factions, Eldar in particular, need a bit of love.

Yep I saw that, and thank you for making them! I've already changed the colors and badge to look more like Death Guard, but I was just being more picky. I agree eldar need more flare to their armor, maybe even a dark eldar scheme??? Anyways I was just hoping in finding someone else to make a more personalized scheme.

[DarnedDragoon]

Maybe I just need to learn how to make mods myself. Though as I understand it modding has quite the learning curve and I believe it requires some pretty expensive programs as well as a pc that can keep up. I'm not quite sure though.

[Wise Windu]

Or if someone else with modeling experience shows up and wants to help out without being paid . Which would be awesome. I'd love to see more DLC skins as well, but again it all depends on people who are willing to put the time in to make stuff for free. And currently, without new base models being made really, it all depends on what models are available.

Ah I was reading the Terms of Service early trying to figure out if you can pay for a mod or not. I must admit the legal mumbo jumbo kind of went over my head, and I wasn't clear if you can commission for mods or not. I infer from your post, Wise Windu, that it is not legal to commission a mod?

I mean, you could certainly pay people to make 3D models or just mods. There are plenty of people on the internet who provide that service. But it can probably get pretty expensive, especially if you want the texturing and animation work done as well. It's not that it's illegal, it's that we just can't afford to pay anyone to do it. So it has to be out of their enjoyment of it rather than financial benefit.

Adding the models into Elite once they're done is the easy part, and could easily be done if we had the models available. But again, the creation of the 3D models themselves is the issue.

[DarnedDragoon]

I mean, you could certainly pay people to make 3D models or just mods. There are plenty of people on the internet who provide that service. But it can probably get pretty expensive, especially if you want the texturing and animation work done as well. It's not that it's illegal, it's that we just can't afford to pay anyone to do it. So it has to be out of their enjoyment of it rather than financial benefit.

Adding the models into Elite once they're done is the easy part, and could easily be done if we had the models available. But again, the creation of the 3D models themselves is the issue.

Well I frankly don't know where to start for finding modders and I don't know how much it would cost, but I am definitely interested in finding out.

[Swift]

Well Dark Eldar models exist, not in large quantities, but they exist, though if they were implemented they would be their own faction, not a reskinned Eldar scheme. (At least not in the long term).

[DarnedDragoon]

So you can add an entire new faction without a placeholder? For example I thought the reason why GKs could be added to the game is because they took the place of the unfinished Tau.

Anyways back to the topic of the Death Guard, is there any preexisting models of the bolters and/or jet packs seen above? Would they require their own, entirely new, animations?

[Wise Windu]

So you can add an entire new faction without a placeholder? For example I thought the reason why GKs could be added to the game is because they took the place of the unfinished Tau.

Doesn't really have anything to do with the Tau. The GK faction is added (due to restrictions in the UI) as an additional commander for the Space Marines, and each race can technically have 4 commanders. And I guess they use the Tau Army Painter slot. The only thing really preventing further additional races (besides the difficulty of obtaining models and balancing obviously) is the game's UI. We should have a fix for that some time in the future when DontTouchMyCrumpets has the time to finish the UI changes.

Anyways back to the topic of the Death Guard, is there any preexisting models of the bolters and/or jet packs seen above?

I believe the helmet and armor models for the MKIV ASM exist. We at least use similar models for skins in Elite. Other than that, not that I know of. Maybe Sterling would know more.

Would they require their own, entirely new, animations?

Assuming they didn't add extra cloths or things that should move with the model, they probably wouldn't need brand new animations. The new models would just have to be fitted onto the pre-existing skeletons and animations.

[DarnedDragoon]

So if I were to hire a freelance 3d artist, I should provide them with the skeletons,which would be under what files?

Also for any new models what should be their poly count? I would guess there should be a limit since it's supposed to work in game. What version of 3ds Max should they use?

What file format do the models need to be in, .obj or something else?

If you guys can point me in the right direction to finding already preexisting models like the bolters, then I can have the freelancer just focus on other portions of the model.

In fact while we are on the subject why don't you guys make a list of some new models you like to see. A brief description or character name should do.

[Wise Windu]

So if I were to hire a freelance 3d artist, I should provide them with the skeletons,which would be under what files?

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Dawn of War II - Retribution\Elite\Data\art\race_chaos\troops_wargear\armour\chaos_terminator\chaos_terminator_body_enhanced_version.model
For the Terminator at least.

Problem is that it's in a format not immediately compatible with 3D model editors. I have it extracted to a Max format if you want it. Otherwise, the modeler would have to learn how to use Santos' tools, which probably isn't a good idea since it can be kind of finicky and take some time to figure out. Although maybe it would be easier for someone already well versed in 3DS max, I dunno.

Also for any new models what should be their poly count?

They could just use the previous model as a benchmark. Not sure of the normal count for an armour model.

What version of 3ds Max should they use?

Any, assuming you don't have them learn Santos' tools. It's still the same file type as far as I know, and we could just convert the file afterwards.

What file format do the models need to be in, .obj or something else?

.max file, or whatever the files from 3ds max are. Otherwise, the modeler would have to learn how to export it to a .model file through Santos' tools, which again could be awkward.

If you guys can point me in the right direction to finding already preexisting models like the bolters, then I can have the freelancer just focus on other portions of the model.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure the bolter models don't exist. The ASMs in that picture have models for them:

Alpha Legion helmet

And the armor I think is used by the Pre Heresy Luna Wolves. Otherwise, just go in game and have a look at the models all of the units use in all of the DLCs. Those are pretty much the models that are available. There's a reason we aren't always adding new ones, you know. There aren't many floating around.

Sterling would also probably be able to comment a bit more on these, and I'd defer to him on 3ds max related stuff especially. I'm also not sure on the texturing process and how that converts into .model files. Definitely defer to Sterling on that one.

[DarnedDragoon]

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Dawn of War II - Retribution\Elite\Data\art\race_chaos\troops_wargear\armour\chaos_terminator\chaos_terminator_body_enhanced_version.model
For the Terminator at least.

Problem is that it's in a format not immediately compatible with 3D model editors. I have it extracted to a Max format if you want it. Otherwise, the modeler would have to learn how to use Santos' tools, which probably isn't a good idea since it can be kind of finicky and take some time to figure out. Although maybe it would be easier for someone already well versed in 3DS max, I dunno.

Yeah if you could send me it in the max format that would be great. I spent over an hour today just trying to properly install Santos' Tool 2, using his old tutorial and I was still unable to open a model to take a look at it. So I would definitely prefer not having to rely on it.

They could just use the previous model as a benchmark. Not sure of the normal count for an armour model.

Good idea.

There's a reason we aren't always adding new ones, you know. There aren't many floating around.

Yeah I know, I feel like I've been all over the internet search for them. Thanks a bunch for the information, you've been a great help. I will up date you guys on this thread once I've found a freelance artist.