Eldar Faction is way under powered and Forgotten

[Torpid]

This is a WH40k Game's Forum. We like fire. We do trial by fire better than all else

Welcome to the forum btw!

[The Exarch]

When is the Eldar Update coming out? have you even posted a date yet?

[The Exarch]

This is a WH40k Game's Forum. We like fire. We do trial by fire better than all else

Welcome to the forum btw!

Thank you!

[Caeltos]

When is the Eldar Update coming out? have you even posted a date yet?

Very very soon. We're pushing the updates like wildfire at the moment. I think we're just doing some polishing up on everything.

We don't want invisible Land Raiders roaming around, which is a case in the develop build we've got going, amongst other things.

[The Exarch]

When is the Eldar Update coming out? have you even posted a date yet?

Very very soon. We're pushing the updates like wildfire at the moment. I think we're just doing some polishing up on everything.

We don't want invisible Land Raiders roaming around, which is a case in the develop build we've got going, amongst other things.

Hey take you time buddy! you cant rush art. Thank you for your time for the 2 days and great job on the mod my friend.

[Atlas]

....
Very very soon. We're pushing the updates like wildfire at the moment.
...

Don't you do it Caeltos!

Don't you dare squeeze this patch our of you rear end until May 24th and my tourney is over! I've done a lot of talking to random ppls to get them into my shitty tourney and moving the date back again will make me VERY VERY.... disgruntled

The rage of a million Max Powers will be upon you if you dare!

[Swift]

....
Very very soon. We're pushing the updates like wildfire at the moment.
...

Don't you do it Caeltos!

Don't you dare squeeze this patch our of you rear end until May 24th and my tourney is over! I've done a lot of talking to random ppls to get them into my shitty tourney and moving the date back again will make me VERY VERY.... disgruntled

The rage of a million Max Powers will be upon you if you dare!

Actually, whilst Atlas talks in jests, it may be beneficial to delay the patch if it is ready before MRT 14.

[Dark Riku]

(Dark Riku) Riku, Im a huge fan of yours and was really bummed that i managed to get you sorta pissed off. I'm glad that we were able to move past that! I'm glad to join this group and will be sticking for as long as you guys do, so if you look for me you will see me around. Any hopes on some Eldar Training from ya?

Don't feel bummed about this man. Not worth it
Eldar training from me? Are you sure about that?

Are you one of the Mod Designers?

The biggest conrtibutors can be found here.

Don't you dare squeeze this patch our of you rear end until May 24th and my tourney is over! I've done a lot of talking to random ppls to get them into my shitty tourney and moving the date back again will make me VERY VERY.... disgruntled

MOVE IT! I can't join otherwise. QQ

[Lichtbringer]

But If you want to get noticed you have to stand out and in that regard i was successful. Having said that I still feel i should apologize because I was to demanding and disrespectful. Now I know I'm not a pro in anyway in this game but I am motivated to learn and that's the first step to becoming one am I right?

I never really thought about it, but you are right. I often feel like I am a going a bit under in forums, never getting many responses, and not making a big impression, BECAUSE all my posts are reasonable and polite/not provocative. (I atleast hope so ).
If this thread was more reasonable (sorry )I could definitly see it dissapearing with 1 or 2 replys.

That reminds me, I need a profilepick I guess it really helps establishing yourself. I should work on myself instead blaming others. (Oh shit I am doing it again ) But still sometimes you have to be a bit controversial/provocative.

So, welcome to the Forums, and it's always great to find Eldar enthusiasts.
Many people think that we like to paint ourselfs as the victims, (and I guess it's partly true in respect to the lore, we kinda have a justified complex about SM being treated better ),
and our Race is a bit hated on (oh shit I am doing the victim thing) because we are annoying to play against. Let's be honest I don't want an Eldar mirror either (even though I always blame that on the fact that it is a mirrormatch AND that we Eldar are way to few to fight among ourselfes).

Also Eldar has a steep skillcurve (many acitive abillitys to use, units fragile, positioning is important, microintensive, sometimes counterintuitiv, and most importantly pretty different than the other factions), so many lower-medium players think they are weak. This leads to more people posting threads about Eldar like this one, while at higher Skilllevels Eldar is not seen that way.


About the upcoming Eldar rework patch, I also have my worries, but for now I trust in Caeltos that he has the right DESIGN in mind from all I have heard from him. He is a very reasonable person (and I think he secretly wants to buff Eldar, so maybe he hides the buffs in the rework). Balance can be changed later when it becomes clear that the changes left us to weak.

One thing that bothers me a bit is that I don't really know what exactly will be changed (which is why I am not posting much about it). I saw some tentative changlelog for Eldar here somewhere, but even after using the searchfuntion for 5 minutes I can't find it. And that was also not final, and had many thing missing I think which made some things seem baaad while other changes actually made the same change a buff.

[bountyhunter571]

(BountyHunter571) Yes i would very much like to contribute to the mod and will do all in my power to learn this skill set and put it into play. I am a disabled Veteran so i have a lot of time on my hands lol. Now keep in mind that I will be learning this skill from scratch but im pretty Tech-Savvy so It shouldn't be a problem. Are you one of the Mod Designers?

Haha, not at all. I'm just a guy that enjoys to learn new stuff, and is by far more motivated if its related to something funny, so Im trying to get myself into it and hopefully I am able to create something that adds value to the community someday. I'm pretty sure that if you create a nice map or a cool looking skin noone will vote against it to be in the mod. However, there are a lot of friendly people around here that will help you concerning these specific matters.

[The Exarch]

Don't feel bummed about this man. Not worth it
Eldar training from me? Are you sure about that?

Yeah man, your the best eldar player i have spoken to(Unless of of the other people on this forum is better) I know Eldar are not your main but i have seen you do some pretty amazing things with them. So yes i am sure buddy

[The Exarch]

Don't you dare squeeze this patch our of you rear end until May 24th and my tourney is over! I've done a lot of talking to random ppls to get them into my shitty tourney and moving the date back again will make me VERY VERY.... disgruntled

The rage of a million Max Powers will be upon you if you dare!

What tournament are you doing? whats it for?

[The Exarch]

Hey Lichtbringer, Welcome to the thread. I try to be calm and respectful most of the time to. I always consider what my actions would mean for another person which is why i felt bad that i had caused some strong emotions with my post. However standing out in a crowd is a valuable skill as well. One of the best and quickest ways to do this is to trust your emotions because what is emotional to you will probably be for someone else too.

Also, i know i got worried that maybe i had ruined my chance to be known and heard by this forum but try not to always worry about that stuff and stop blaming yourself about the small stuff cuz no one is to blame. I had a friend who did that and it was hard on her her whole life and she is no longer with us because of it. (Sorry to turn this into a Oprah moment lol)

Anyways thank you for the welcome man i really appreciate everyone welcoming me it has made me feel like i belong here, and yeah man i'm a strong pro Eldar kinda guy and ill do what i can to help make them better. Thats not to say i dont like the other factions tho. I love the whole warhammer universe and all the factions in it, even if the SM are the poster child of it lol.

[Ven]

basically everything i wanted to say has already been said, so im just going to give some broad pointers.

as swift pointed out earlier, it sounds more like a L2P (Learn to play) issue to me. luckily, you're on the forums, so go to the stratergy subforum and ask about how you can up your game, maybe save some replays and maybe someone will take the time to analyse them, and point out what you did wrong, how to improve etc.

also you might consider watching a streamer, such as myself, nurland, phate or batpimp; we're always answering questions in chat so if you have any general questions you want answered then fire away! just dont ask max power any questions, if you say "how do i use banshees effeciently?" to him he'll probably say some crap like "run them at tacs and the tacs get oneshot, ded gaime" <3 max.

the ELITE forums aren't a boogeyman in sheeps clothing, no that's just riku

welcome to the forums!

[The Exarch]

basically everything i wanted to say has already been said, so im just going to give some broad pointers.

as swift pointed out earlier, it sounds more like a L2P (Learn to play) issue to me. luckily, you're on the forums, so go to the stratergy subforum and ask about how you can up your game, maybe save some replays and maybe someone will take the time to analyse them, and point out what you did wrong, how to improve etc.

also you might consider watching a streamer, such as myself, nurland, phate or batpimp; we're always answering questions in chat so if you have any general questions you want answered then fire away! just dont ask max power any questions, if you say "how do i use banshees effeciently?" to him he'll probably say some crap like "run them at tacs and the tacs get oneshot, ded gaime" <3 max.

the ELITE forums aren't a boogeyman in sheeps clothing, no that's just riku

welcome to the forums!

Okay will do! whats the best way to reach you and where can i find your streams?

[MaxPower]

[..]just dont ask max power any questions, if you say "how do i use banshees effeciently?" to him he'll probably say some crap like "run them at tacs and the tacs get oneshot, ded gaime" <3 max.[..]

Welcome to the forums!

Well, I wouldn't say that, but I would say something like: "get rangers, kinetic shot, banshees on dev = dead dev" also shussh mr. justin bieber look alike, also <3 ven

And yes, welcome to the forums.

[Atlas]

If you ppl are really looking for good Eldar players I would suggest you check out Adila for some good POV Eldar stuff. He does some other stuff as well but I'd say he's probably the closest to an Eldar dedicated "expert" we have right now.

[Dark Riku]

the ELITE forums aren't a boogeyman in sheeps clothing, no that's just riku

Careful there son, you're legally considered mature now, the punishments for hitting mature people are a lot less worse than that of hitting children

[The Exarch]

LMFAO, talking to you guys is a blast. ill hit Adila up soon thank you for pointing me his way.

[Maestro Cretella]

Exarch, since you seem reasonable and willing to listen, I am going to explain in detail what about your original post was either inaccurate or bold enough to provoke hostile responses. My intention with this isn't to irritate, even if it might feel that way, but to educate.

the eldar are already the weakest faction

This is an extremely bold claim. To legitimately make this kind of claim, you absolutely need to be an expert with lots of first hand experience, and you need to be able to explain yourself with very specific examples that support this claim. If you aren't an expert and can't explain yourself in a way that demonstrates a deep understanding of the game, then you are kind of overstepping by making such bold claims.

and in the Elite mod have been completely forgotten all together.

This is a very brash statement that you haven't thought through. The changelog on this website lists over 150 changes for Eldar in the Elite mod. They've received two units, one of which (Dark Reapers) were considered overpowered at one time, and needed to be tweaked to make them reasonable. They've received a major buff in Elite by being able to upgrade to a brightlance directly from a shuriken, rather than having to buy it separately.

The Exarch: Yes lets nurf the Eldar even tho they hardly ever win a match. What you should be doing is buffing them.

This is not only a brash statement, it is an extremely arrogant one. Who are you to say what the Elite Mod Development team should be doing? Are you an expert Dawn of War II player who specializes in Eldar? Are you someone who hasn't played the game much and just casually watches casts on YouTube? My guess is actually somewhere in between. Telling people what they should be doing when you are undoubtedly less knowledgeable and less qualified is not a tactful move. If you have something you feel strongly about, then you need to do your due diligence by researching the information you need to make sure that what you're saying is reasonable. Instead, you've said some things that reveal some very basic gaps in your knowledge of the game.

What we need is a striking scorpion squad and maybe some swooping hawks.

This is probably one of the statements that most likely provoked hostile responses. Introducing new units just for the hell of it is usually a bad idea and can create major balance issues. This is the kind of the statement that is usually made by inexperienced players who just think it would be cool, but are unable to see the bigger picture.

When you add a new unit, it is now interacting with dozens, hundreds, if not thousands, of existing elements in the game. It could throw off balance in so many ways, that adding a new unit is not a simple matter. First, we need to decide if there is actually a need for the unit, or if it will actually enhance that faction in a way that enriches and balances gameplay. Then, the unit needs to be carefully thought out and planned before it is ever actually implemented into the game. Finally, once it has been implemented, it needs to be tested, because no matter how much planning is done, you will never know how the unit actually performs until it is put to the test.

We will never get a Eldar champion

What are you even talking about here? If you're talking about Eldar players winning, it happens. They have won Faction Wars before. Last year, the Elite Mod Championship was won by an Eldar player, who didn't even lose a single game in the finals. Two years ago, there was a Faction Battle tournament, and the finals were Eldar vs. Eldar. This is a statement that you cannot reasonably make without actually knowing the history.

because while all the ather factions are being improved and balanced the Eldar are forgotten.

There are over 150 changes listed for the Eldar in the changelog. Some of them are buffs and some of them are nerfs. Have you reviewed the changelog to actually compare their buffs and nerfs with those of all the other factions? It is flat-out inaccurate to say all other factions are being improved and Eldar is being forgotten. All of the factions are constantly being tweaked with both nerfs and buffs.

If you want prof of this, take a look at the Elite skins for all the other factions, now look at the Eldar... Do you see any? neither do i.

This is poor argumentation. Your argument with in this thread is that Eldar are underpowered and needed to be buffed. This is one of the few specific examples you provided, but it's completely irrelevant. The fact that Eldar have fewer custom skins than other factions has nothing to do with their balance.

I mean you have got to be kidding me 3 Eldrich Storms and a Warp spider support? c'mon!

I have taken the time to review this particular example, and I think it's a poor example.

Immediately after the first storm, Indrid says, "strange time to use it, not backing it up with anything," and he's absolutely right. The proper way to use the Eldritch Storm to take out a super unit is not to destroy the super unit outright with the storm alone, but to snare it, and then follow up with the rest of your army while the super unit can't move. The Eldritch bolts have a pretty wide spread, and not all of them are actually expected to connect. The second Eldritch does occur shortly after the first, but there is actually a long delay until the third one comes, enough time for the Land Raider to receive enough repairs to keep it alive. The only follow up to any of these Eldritches was a single haywire after the third one.

What you saw was not sound strategy. It was a desperation play made by players who were under pressure. They had few plays remaining and basically just went all in.

you want to balance the eldar then we need a good t1 or t2 melee squad and a striking scorpion would do great for that!

This is another statement that probably explains why you provoked some hostile responses. Eldar already have a good t1 and t2 melee squad. Not only are they a good squad, but Howling Banshees are arguably the best tier 1 melee squad, and arguably scale better than any other tier 1 melee unit in the game. For you to not know this, not realize this, or forget about it, makes it seem like you are not knowledgeable about the game. If you are not knowledgeable about the game, then you are not really in the position to say what Eldar needs as far as nerfs, buffs, or new units.

Again, this goes back to what I said about deciding if there is a need for a new unit. If the role we're talking about is just a melee unit, then that role is filled by Howling Banshees, so there isn't necessarily a need for Striking Scorpions, unless they are going to fill another role beyond just "a good melee unit."

plus we need a jump disruption squad and the swooping hawks are the answer.

You are yourself using the word "need" now, but the "jump disruption" role is already filled by the Autarch. I could basically repeat what I said about Howling Banshees and Striking Scorpions, but this time I would be talking about the Autarch and Swooping Hawks. Remember that Elite Mod is a balance mod, not a lore mod or feature mod. Its goal is not to include every single thing from the 40k universe. Just loading up a mod with units and features might make for some fun fooling around and experimentation, but it typically isn't conducive to a long lasting competitive game.

please stop ignoring us eldar players and fix the mod the eldar faction is broken.

You are taking a discussion about a game and you are making it personal. You are suggesting that someone is ignoring you. This is also something that can provoke a hostile response. Even if there were legitimately a problem with Eldar not being good enough, that would not be an issue of "you" and "them." It's an impersonal issue of game balance. No one is ignoring you. You're getting plenty of attention.

Oh and one last thing... Why oh why is the the Avatar the weakest super unit in the game?

This is again a bold claim that requires expert knowledge, specific examples, and an explanation that demonstrates a deep knowledge of the game. What exactly do you think is weak about the Avatar? The Avatar has a passive aura that buffs units around it. It is an extremely durable unit that it exerts pressure and forces movement by approaching enemy units. It can be kited to an extent because it has no ranged weapon, but actually countering it and taking it out requires the commitment of multiple units. Its abilities are good for VP control, and can also be set up for major damage.

Do the Elite mod designers have an issue with the Eldar or something?

This comes off as a veiled personal attack that does not help your argument in any way.

[The Exarch]

MAESTRO CRETLLA,

First of all thank you for the time it took for you to type this up. it must have taken you a long time to research some of what i was talking about from the video as well as time spent typing it up. This is you taking a good deal of time out of your night for me and I in no way take that lightly so thank you.

A lot of what you said to me we have already discussed and I walked away from it more knowledgeable as well as more humble, that is not to say i did not learn from your words too. My original words where written by a much more irritated me on Youtube after losing a bet and having to deal with all of the burns that come with it and me trying to defend my favorite faction. you know the phrase let cooler heads prevail? I did not take that advice at the time. Having said that I don't necessarily believe everything I said so please don't think of me as a person who runs around making claims like this all the time. After posting it on Youtube I was asked to bring my opinion over to this forum and you know everything that happened after that.

Anyways thank you again for your time.
-Exarch-

[Wise Windu]

Also is there anything i can do to help you guys out? I love what you do and would be happy to lend a hand at anything within my power.

There are probably a couple of things you could learn how to do if you're interested in contributing.

1. Map making - learn how to use the World Editor and figure out what goes into a good 3v3/2v2/1v1 map, and give that a try. We could always use new and interesting maps. The 2v2 map pool especially is pretty lacking.

2. 2D texture work or 3D model making (or both?) - Learn how to use image editing software (I use GIMP 2, but Photoshop works too), and learn how to edit the 2D textures that are applied to 3D models. Or learn how to use 3DS Max with Santos' Tools (link: http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread. ... 2-released!) and make some 3D models. I know recently, bountyhunter has been trying to learn how to do this as well.

There's probably stuff I'm forgetting because I'm tired, but those are probably the biggest.

Anyway, welcome

[Ven]

Are you one of the Mod Designers?

The biggest conrtibutors can be found here.

errrrr. crazy man is still listed as a shoutcaster Kappa. something tells me this list needs updating, also need new catagory: "ded/Company of heroes 2 heathen" xD

[Swift]

List all the contributors and it'll be overflowing!

[Toilailee]

...

Cretella the diplomat.

We will never get a Eldar champion

You might just get one next week lulz.

[Atlas]

Don't you dare squeeze this patch our of you rear end until May 24th and my tourney is over! I've done a lot of talking to random ppls to get them into my shitty tourney and moving the date back again will make me VERY VERY.... disgruntled

The rage of a million Max Powers will be upon you if you dare!

What tournament are you doing? whats it for?

This tourney.

[The Exarch]

Hey guys hows it going to day,

Atlas, im not sure i fully understand the touny but it seems like something I would like. How can i get involved?

Toilailee, I would be very happy to see Eldar champion. Is this championship for faction wars or the tournament?

Wise Windyu, I have already started watching videos and playing around with a few programs, if i can do it it will be done. "My thoughts make Maps manifest" lol

[Atlas]

....

Atlas, im not sure i fully understand the touny but it seems like something I would like. How can i get involved?

...I would be very happy to see Eldar champion. Is this championship for faction wars or the tournament? .....

The tournament is a 1v1 format with a little bit of all skill levels this time. All you have to do if you want to play is give me your steam name and the three heroes you want to play with!

And Toilalee was referencing the tournament there I believe, which is going to be on the Saturday next week. This is just a guess, but I think he's either talking about Asmon or Holy winning the tournament, but that is pure conjecture on my part.

[Torpid]

The tournament is a 1v1 format with a little bit of all skill levels this time. All you have to do if you want to play is give me your steam name and the three heroes you want to play with!

And Toilalee was referencing the tournament there I believe, which is going to be on the Saturday next week. This is just a guess, but I think he's either talking about Asmon or Holy winning the tournament, but that is pure conjecture on my part.

Hammer young Atlas, Hammer. However, he lacks his OP rangers now. Which will set him back a lot. Mwahahaha, praise Caeltos.

[Toilailee]

What is a faction war champion? Srsly what could FW possibly have to with a championship of any kind?

FW represend everything that is wrong with the current state of this game and thus I've come to despise them. Just get it through to your heads alredy that FW are there just to satisfy the fluff fanboys and have absolutely nothing to with balance or tournaments.

/rant