Whiteshield (Replaces Loyalty to the End) feedback thread

[enasni127]

Also, everyone pretty much respects Caeltos' balance decisions and it's safe to say that when changes are made few people have problems with it and are in agreement. If LTTE was truly as good as people claim, there probably would be no need for a complete change.

I will only qoute and answer this cause this point seems to be what you just can't accept. Caeltos asked the players of his mod what they think about getting white shields instead of LTTE.

The majority of people don't want this as it seems.

LTTE is as good as people claim and this is the reason why we don't want to lose it.

I mean, you can write books about it, quote and answer as much as you want, say i lack in evidences - but show none yourself - and so on. the truth is: PEOPLE DON'T WANT IT!

[Dark Riku]

The truth is, some selective people that posted here don't want it. Some that posted here do want it.
This topic just isn't drawing much response.

[Helios]

The truth is, some selective people that posted here don't want it. Some that posted here do want it.
This topic just isn't drawing much response.

^

And also, since enasni continues to post with blinders on, I also don't want LTTE replaced. So maybe after a third mentioning you'll listen, but a good way to preserve it is to attach it to a piece of wargear with appropriate CD and energy costs. A good candidate is either Aura of Discipline or the Klaw.

[enasni127]

The truth is, some selective people that posted here don't want it. Some that posted here do want it.
This topic just isn't drawing much response.

^

A good candidate is either Aura of Discipline or the Klaw.

@ Riku:

there was much of interest in the first few days.

@ helios:

Replacement or a change without losing it might be a good idea but I don't think the Klaw would be the right way to do it. Somehow, whenever people want something new, it must be attached to the klaw - not cause it makes sense but cause the klaw hasn't been given an ability yet. Maybe it should be added to guardsmen squads on t2 and be renamed to "defensive formation" or "firing line" or something like that ;D

[enasni127]

The truth is, some selective people that posted here don't want it. Some that posted here do want it.
This topic just isn't drawing much response.

^

A good candidate is either Aura of Discipline or the Klaw.

@ Riku:

there was much of interest in the first few days. And even now it has more than 90 answers and >3200 views.... much more than most other posts atm.

@ helios:

Replacement or a change without losing it might be a good idea but I don't think the Klaw would be the right way to do it. Somehow, whenever people want something new, it must be attached to the klaw - not cause it makes sense but cause the klaw hasn't been given an ability yet. Maybe it should be added to guardsmen squads on t2 and be renamed to "defensive formation" or "firing line" or something like that ;D

[Cyris]

Per enasni127's assertion, I'll chime in again.

LTTE - I don't care for this ability, not because it isn't strong / useful / fair, but because it has poor feedback. I'm a big stickler for feedback (UYC gaining a giant thunderbolt is a wonderful example of this), and subtle FX making a squad suddenly immortal is not great. By contrast Flare and Mines are both very obvious and cool, while LTTE has confusing mechanics and weirdly specific squads it's even good on. I do not doubt that skilled players can use it well int he right situations, but I wouldn't bat an eye to have it go away.

Whiteshields - They sound far too much like a slight variation on the GU squad. The bonuses from cover sound fun, and transitional AV means a no sent, no HWT T1 is more viable. Repair + mass infantry with reinforce mechanics is just so compositionally similar to GU. I have no problem whatsoever with them being a Commie only unit, and being available in T1. Part of me thinks losing Repair would be good. Give them whatever buffs are needed, and they become the core of a mass infantry army? I do very much like bringing LTTE onto them, as it makes the existance of that buff a feature of this squad, and therefore better understood.

In short:
I won't miss LTTE
The current pitch on Whiteshields doesn't excite me much, but giving the Commie a unique T1 unit is fine.

Oh, and do keep considering that T2 generic flame-tank plz (can't remember the name)

EDIT:
Adding Bold and Underline to make sure you all know I'm Serious.

[VanDietsland]

Hellhound! massive flames of prometheum

[Sturnn]

There is already Banewolf. No need for other units of the same purpose.

[Helios]

There is already Banewolf. No need for other units of the same purpose.

That is correct but the argument some are making, myself somewhat included, is that we already have Guardsmen. No need for a "Guardsmen-lite", yet we might get one anyway.

[Sturnn]

From what I read about Whiteshields they will work totaly different than Guardsman. Banewolf/Hellhound are the same for me.

[Helios]

From what I read about Whiteshields they will work totaly different than Guardsman.

Care to elaborate on this? They're both cheap, easily reinforceable squads with large numbers of units doing similar damage. Only real difference is Whiteshields do a bit more in cover, and have an ability, while GM have their emergency button in case the danger they retreated from has passed. Maybe once a lascannon comes into play for the whiteshields there may be deviations in use but until then, they're practically the same.

[egewithin]

I don't think IG need any new units nowadays. But maybe some new cool weapon upgrades. Lemen Russ still has an empty slot to fill But not necessery, the balance is faaarrr important.

[Sturnn]

Time for Tau in Elite Mode, to the Warp with Whiteshields

[Helios]

I don't think IG need any new units nowadays. But maybe some new cool weapon upgrades. Lemen Russ still has an empty slot to fill But not necessery, the balance is faaarrr important.

Demolisher Leman with Flamer Sponsons?

Time for Tau in Elite Mode, to the Warp with Whiteshields

Boy aren't you productive and appreciative...

[zenphys]

Has this idea been abandoned? Seemed like a cool idea . Commissar lord leading a huge mass of weak infantry and buffing them. Also liked the idea of each commander having a unique unit to try and seperate them a bit more.

Although i would probably work them different. I am a total noob in the game so not sure how great this would work.

I would have them with the same HP as normal guardsmen but with reduced damage. Lower cost and upkeep. Two upgrades

Sargent: adds sargent and two whiteshield
Endless Recruits: adds two whiteshield and they now reinforce two at a time (Like the tyranid gaunt upgrade)

Not sure how well they would fit into the game but i was just thinking about a unit you could use to do crazy infantry charges, kinda like the tyranid style of attacking and then retreating with fast reinforcing gaunts. Though i guess you could move them forward supported by chimeras for a fast reinforcing infantry charge. Also the lack of special weapons just means they are a line of imperial guard flashlights. I guess it means they won't scale very well with the lack of anti heavy or anti tank.

Alternatively you could give him a unique vehicle which is much tankier than a chimera and can be used as a reinforcement point. Although it also buffs nearby infantry, maybe only guardsmen, perhaps moving the 'become stronger as members of the unit die' bonus onto the aura of this vehicle? The tradeoff compared to a chimeria is that it does much less damage, maybe not even having a weapon, and can't be used as a transport, and doesn't have a mobile base mode. Just throwing out ideas here

[Caeltos]

Just different priorities. Not been scrapped.

At least, not entirely. Or yet.

[Black Relic]

Honestly. I would rather have something like the Drop Pod for the CL. Where a crate drops and spawns a guardsmen squad (upgraded with the sergeant perhaps) and reinforces nearby infantry (except ograns but who knows) as well as buffing the area near the spawn since guardsmen try to motivate themselves by repeating "we have more numbers men."

But there is my two cents.

But I do like the Loyal to the End global. Perhaps make a range weapon for the CL (not really have ranged damage increase nor a large melee damage increase but perhaps just change the weapon damage from melee to power melee) but includes LttE's buff to the "Inspire" abilities.

[ChrisNihilus]

I personally think it would be better to have a Penal Legion instead of Whiteshields, and to make them a more melee oriented squad.
Just to add some variety. IG have already enough cheap body with ranged weapons to keep in cover, and since Catachans lost their bleeding factor and, so, they are less likely to reach melee (and to do the same damage when they reach it), a cheap and numerous melee squad could create some interesting synergies.

Of course Catachans will still have the powermelee damage and all the utilities that make them what they are, while these would be basically a squad of sergeants, with ccw and laspistol.

Everything else is perfect, i like the idea of a call-in for the Lord Commissar.

[zenphys]

Penal legion is an interesting idea. It would definately make the CL stand out compared to the other IG leaders. Although it might hurt the uniqueness of the imprerial guard consideirng they are the only race i think which lacks a dedicated T1 melee unit. However i like it

[saltychipmunk]

so.... heretics with no abilities?

[Helios]

I envisioned it similarly to Black Relic's description, but it also brought up an issue or two.

My idea had been, you call it in with X req and Y red cost anywhere you had vision and you would drop in via Valkyrie a squad of 10-12 Whiteshields.
Apply whatever balanced stats you want to them but they couldn't reinforce, and could have been on a timer. They'd have a passive Loyal to the End always on them, and their damage unbuffed would have been a tad less than GM but since they were going to die anyway you could use Inspires on them. They would award no experience to the enemy, and give only 1 red for killing them and not refund any red.

Of course I realized that if they were dropped in, someone would use them right beside a setup team and immediately tie it up, but I figured it would be balanced by giving it a substantial delay, like 6 seconds and an indicator to the enemy.

[inespie]

I don't think that whitheshield is a bad idea, but Loyalty to the end is useful.

Getting them with no red cost from the base would be fine if they are ranged ostruppen. yea, ranged ostrupen with krak grenade could be cool. or a grenade launcher squad.

Getting them on a dropping box , as penal, melee unit would be cool too. the inquisitor has her instant stormy, after all.

Replacing the mines, maybe ? nowaday everyone seem to have detector.

But what I would really prefer, and found more fluff worthy for the CL is a squad a squad of Cadet commissar, lead by a regular commissar, armed with lasguns with bayonet. moderate ranged dps, and good melee ability, Sorta like the tactical squad ( by IG standard, of course )
And with a "Charge" ability, that would increase their speed and melee damage and give them charge, duh. Maybe make it more extreme and make it like the execution buff, so their dps would be greatly increased but forbid retreat.

[ChrisNihilus]

CL

It's LC now.

CL is Chaos Lord.
CL is HERESY

ಠ_ಠ

[Spartan717]

You could make white shield replace the 'loyalty to the end' globle and have the original 'loyalty to the end' added as a ability slot for the LC (similar to how the original drop pod ability was given to all space marine commanders).

[karnakkardak]

Oh my god, is this post still working? Im suprised.

And all of guys didnt think whiteshield replace mine drop, Not loyal to the end? Just few change, problem solve! (U dont choose only 1.) And whiteshield onrginal skill change set mine.

My mean, let Ws(skill) repalce air mine drop not ltte.