GK tier 1 vs. Chaos heretics?

[Lichtbringer]

You can dodge the doomblast (very unlickely if your enemy knows what hes doing), for example with Fleet of Foot banshees, and if the enemy uses it when only half your units are engaged and you pull out fast enough.
but that's not what SubZero means.

Supression does 2 things: first it slows down your units movementspeed, secondly it reduced their ranged firerate greatly. If your ranged unit gets meleed by another unit, your unit will not automatically engage in melee. Only the models that get hit in melee will melee back. So if all his heretics gang up on one or two of your models, your third model will just stand there and try to shoot, but don't shoot because it is supressed.
In this Situation I am sure an unupgraded Heretic Squad would win against a Strikesquad.
If you press d (on my key layout) and click on the enemy melee unit, to force melee the last model will also join the fight, even though slowly because of supression. (supression doesn't affect the melee attack speed).


Also, sorry Torpid, but you were unneccesarily rude, and unprovoced I would say.

So what gives? Do heretics defeat the entire tier 1 Grey Knights roster? I'm a sucky player so take my opinion with a grain of salt if not a truckload, but isn't that kind of... I dunno... dumb?

Whatelse has a beginner to say, so that we don't jump on him? It is clear that he is a beginner (not knowing about meleecharge), I think he was polite about it (didn't insult anyone), he was just dumbstruck (hehe) by the fact that a T1 210 Req unit wins against a T1 450 unit that is supossed to be good in melee from what you can read on the description, and from what the lore suggests. I feel it is totally valid in this Situation to call something, questionably, dumb.

Also, many players complained that it is weird to build 3 IST with GK, before Caeltos explained the concept.

Maybe you forgot what it is to be a beginner, but something like Heretics beating a Strikesquad, or a Strikesquad beating Banshees, really doesn't seem fair to you. It really seems out of whack. Later you learn that it has everything to do with army compositions, how units work together, what you can have at what stages, and that it's really no problem. It would be nice to explain this instead of saying:

HT beats every other hero 1v1. Clearly HT completely OP! Why does anybody play anything other than HT???

Yeah, I understand that what you want to say is look at the unit composition. A beginner might just see hostility.

[Hellstar]

Whatelse has a beginner to say, so that we don't jump on him?

Thanks Lichtbringer, for being charitable, objective, fair, and rational. In other words, thanks for reading what I actually wrote, and recognizing that I did not come here and attack anyone (at least not first), and I did not come here and be rude to anyone (at least not first). Also, thanks for not accusing me of things that absolutely did not happen.

Unfortunately, there is a saying where I come from: "No good deed goes unpunished." So I hope you aren't ostracized here for simply being a good, fair person

Also, thanks for speaking with me AND my test partner in-game, and getting his perspective of the events of our test. I hope you add me on steam.

[Sub_Zero]

The thing I explained is something that I would expect to see from an experienced player. Yet I see over and over how a lot of players, even experienced ones, do not seem to comprehend it. I will try to explain the mechanic to you again.

You do not avoid the suppression effect, you only mitigate some bad sides of this effect. Namely units moving about and not being able to hit properly (for what period of time they do that is dependent on their formation) due to their crippled movement that was caused by suppression.

There is one important note about this little thing. A model on the move loses its melee skill.
A moving model has its Melee Skill reduced by 2 points. While this only slightly increases susceptibility to special attacks for already overmatched models, it can allow a slightly underskilled model to tie, and grant a small chance of pulling off a special attack on a moving enemy trying to slip past. This -2 penalty does not apply to models that are performing "Charging" movement (a special movement state when a model is running towards an enemy to engage it in melee, with a recognizable animation). - from Wikia

So let's say that we have a squad of howling banshees and a squad of tactical marines. Let's say that these battle brothers stand in such a formation that one is on the front whereas the two other stand significantly behind. The howling banshees run in, the tactical marines fire upon them and intend to stay in the combat and fight them back in melee. If you command to fire upon them until the last moment the tactical marines will remain standing in this formation. What will happen next? The banshees will suppress them, start smacking on the leading model (or whatever model actually, the targeting system is beyond anyone's knowledge) and the rest of the models will slowly start moving towards the banshees to attack them in melee. Not only they cannot contribute their DPS to the fight soon but they will also suffer from this penalty because they perform movement. All in all a losing situation for you.

But when you see that the banshees are about to embrace them you command them to force melee. What will that accomplish? All of the tactical marines will be able to reach their target (any of the 5/6 models of the squad of banshees) and start slaping it BEFORE the suppression engulfs them and cripples their movement which leads to the aforementioned events.

This still may be hard to understand. But I hope I made it clear. So it is not a trick, it is not an exploit, it is just a good knowledge of the game mechanics.

As negligible as it may sound it actually does help not to lose melee fights after you fed the approaching aggressor with bolts.

P. S. Tactical marines do not have a melee charge, but how come this penalty will be applied to them when they are already engaged in melee and don't move and just trade blows? - to anyone who would raise this question.

EDIT:

Supression does 2 things: first it slows down your units movementspeed, secondly it reduced their ranged firerate greatly. If your ranged unit gets meleed by another unit, your unit will not automatically engage in melee. Only the models that get hit in melee will melee back. So if all his heretics gang up on one or two of your models, your third model will just stand there and try to shoot, but don't shoot because it is supressed.
In this Situation I am sure an unupgraded Heretic Squad would win against a Strikesquad.
If you press d (on my key layout) and click on the enemy melee unit, to force melee the last model will also join the fight, even though slowly because of supression. (supression doesn't affect the melee attack speed).

This also explains well.