IG trouble.

[inespie]

Ok so, I got some problem with the IG.

Against grey knight :

T1= my hwt focusing the BC unupgraded since he entered their max range do not enough damage to put him down, and he get to melee.

Infiltration squad, that make my catachan feel inadequate. invisible fast satchel putting stuning squad of doom. Can't even find stat on the codex on them.

dread with plasma canon. hurt a lot, is really tought.

hellfire. insta retreat for my men.

paladin, that... melt vehicle and infantry with ease in melee, teleport, have a very good ranged upgrade, and have assault marine with storm shield HP.


Eldar

seem pretty similar to IG, with a ranged fragile infantry focus, and some disruption.
But those hero ability... The warlock zone flame ability, with his range and no prior warning to it, the wraith guard unit that can't be supress and deal really good damage...
When my stack of guard are fighting his group of dire avenger, it seem that he has way more way to disrupt and beat my army. The manticore was nerf, and is not hard to evade for eldar. my hero ability, for inq and LC are way less "battle changing". ogryn are usualy intercepted by banshee. the mortar team seem nice, but his effect are... pretty small, compared to a grenade or the warlock flamme. I usualy only use it to stun weapon team.

Chaos :

So much way to counter my hwt. should I even build them ? I feel i need them to counter their marines blob, and later tzeench ones and their vehicles. but protecting them is hard, against bloodletter, teleporting sorcerer, raptor, noise...


So, what I'm supposed to use against those things ?

[egewithin]

Play each of these factions against IG, then write down the things that annoy you. Then annoy everyone else.

What? I wanted to bring some different perfective.

[terpterp]

Grey Knights are an easier match for IG now that they aren't all heavy infantry melee in T1. As for the operatives, catachans outclass them in just about every way. They detect, have more health, and do a little more DPS. They can't satchel, but can lay down their improvised explosive which is better in a lot of ways. Check the 2.4 release post for stats on them.

Plasma devs can be tough for IG with the splash damage, but you just take it down like every other vehicle. Lascannons, stormtroopers, ogryns, or if you can avoid it until T3. Hellfire isn't too bad if you're on the move, but it can certainly be punishing. Don't keep your men in a blob and he can only hellfury 1 or 2 units.

Paladins are a huge problem for IG. If the game has been relatively evenly matched until T3, paladins can pretty easily turn the tide. A leman isn't really the best answer, with the BC and the termies being able to teleport it's almost certain your leman is going down. 2 kasrkins combined with whatever guardsmen you have left can melt them down pretty quick, but that assumes your squads are being tied down in other ways which they most certainly will be. Again with teleporting BC and every other melee unit GK is sure to have at this point. Assail is the only real counter you'll have to them imo. Which sucks if you aren't playing inquisitor. Now that they can retreat, it's guaranteed that you will never kill them but they can pretty easily take out a leman or kasrkin if you're not very careful. I'm not against the withdraw ability, but it needs either a longer countdown, less health, or allow them to be suppressed or something. But then they're just another unit and not really terminators... its a tricky unit to balance for sure.

As for the eldar, wraith guard are very good in almost every match against IG. Ogryns are the hard counter and what I suggest getting, but a manticore can work ok due to their slow speed. Missile sentinels can also work somewhat. The manticore hasn't really been nerfed, it just costs a little more for the full damage potential. As someone who loves the manticore and uses it in almost every match, I always thought the 60s cooldown was a little too short and the manticore a little too cheap for it's great utility. 70s is reasonable, as is the new cost, especially with the cost and upkeep decrease with guardsmen and their upgrades. Learn to space the missiles in the right places, and you can almost wipe out just about every T1-2 unit in the game if the player isn't paying attention. In an engagment, I'll fire the missiles like this: one just about on the unit you're tageting, and the other three spaced out behind them on the fringe of your range. Players will either not move, and get mostly blasted by all 4 missiles, move backwards and get hit by at least 2 of the 4, or run out of cover and get shot up. a It also makes for great AV if you're a wizard with timing, missile placement, and predicting player movement.

Chaos is also a rough enemy for the IG. Grenade tics are a big problem for IG, and sort of BS to fight against honestly. Every unit you have in T1 is high model count infantry, which the grenades will just annihilate. No jump troops to shut them down, no snipers to pick them off, no real way to force melee on them. Artillery Spotters can get a shell on them, but at most it delays them for a couple seconds to relocate or get back up from the blast. Not a real deterrent, as it still doesn't blast them into range of your troops. They have a range of 55 to your 38, so you can't shoot them without leaving your cover to the mercy of their CSM and whatever else is there. There's only a few sort-of solutions you have to deal with them. Flank a sentinel around the side to force them off, but this is highly dependent on the map and can take way too long to safely get around the side and engage. By the time you've forced off the tics you've probably already lost the engagement, and may also lose your sentinel since it's behind the enemy force now. LG with grenade launcher can put some fire on them, or you could use Move Move Move to get a flamer guardsmen in there to melt them.

All in all, grenade tics are a very cheap upgrade that makes a real headache for IG and you won't have a real solution to them until T2. It sucks. The rest of their units are whatever, you just need the appropriate counter played in the appropriate way to defeat them. Catachans for melee or jump troops, or double HWT team (the second one covering the first one for when they are jumped). Counter blobs with manticore.


If you're having a ton of trouble playing IG or are relatively new to the game or RTS games in general, I suggest you play as Space Marines. Most of their units are pretty straightforward compared to the other races, and it's harder to get squads wiped when they're wearing heavy infantry armor.

[karnakkardak]

Originally IG isnt easy, not recommended faction for beginners. I dont know why so many beginner start with IG but they had a wrong start. It is not abnormal u have a problem.

[egewithin]

Originally IG isnt easy, not recommended faction for beginners. I dont know why so many beginner start with IG but they had a wrong start. It is not abnormal u have a problem.

I think they are thinking like '' Ah finially, normal humans! They shouldn't be as complicated as these aliens or robots '' (They are worse)

[Cyris]

Grey Knights are an easier match for IG now that they aren't all heavy infantry melee in T1. As for the operatives, catachans outclass them in just about every way. They detect, have more health, and do a little more DPS. They can't satchel, but can lay down their improvised explosive which is better in a lot of ways. Check the 2.4 release post for stats on them.

Very much this. Purgation used to shred unwarry GM blobs, forcing the IG to play cautious, buy setup teams and CC (cta/spotter). Now IG just straight win ranged fights (assuming you grab a sent, and maybe tripple GM), so focus fire / kite the BC (who won't have teleport in T1) or stomp as needed. GK need to play hit and run in T1, and do ninja flanks with Operatives who, as mentioned, are real weak to catchans (once you CC and reveal operatives, they are in HUGE trouble).

[enasni127]

i agree with the original poster, gk's are hardcore for ig and very hard to break. focus firing the bc is as useful as focus firing the air....he WILL NOT die, no matter what you try. and while you focus him, the strike squad will attack in melee supported by range fire and stun bombs. i tried it my self and especially in 3v3's gk just rolls over ig. it's just ridiculous if you play gk yourself and feel how helpless ig is vs them. ...but somehow our dear gk players on this forum think this is not a balance issue but their personal skill that makes them win so easy.

[Dark Riku]

We have dedicated GK players? :OOOOO
Now calm down.

I don't see how GK's would just "roll over" IG T1 as you say.

[Cyris]

We have dedicated GK players? :OOOOO
Now calm down.

I'm a dedicated GK player :/

[Crewfinity]

I'm more or less dedicated GK too I suppose.
As for the match up vs IG, they're much better at managing their bleed throughout the game. Triple guardsmen puts out a lot of cheap dps, and HWT's, catachans, and spotters all perform well against GK. To counter that, GK has very good options in strike squads as damage sponges abd grenade launcher IST's. Ops I find a aren't particularly useful in this matchup due to catachans outclassing them. Reductions in GM upkeep and purgations moving to T2 helped the matchup for the IG. I would say that at equal skills, it's slightly IG favored if sentinels are microed well

[BraveSirRobin]

how exactly do spotters work well vs. GK?

[Crewfinity]

how exactly do spotters work well vs. GK?

in this patch GK likes to poke at enemy formations, back off, and take positions of cover to shoot from. spotters disrupt enemy ranged formations, and by mortaring vulnerable IST squads you can easily pick off models and inflict bleed. you can also smoke sheel the strike squad while they're sitting in green cover to induce them to try to approach for melee, where you can whittle them down with your flashlights. sentinels are good at skirmishing with the GK forces in T1, and spotters just allow you to win the ranged firefights much easier, since GK T1 is entirely range-based now.

[BraveSirRobin]

I don't know, it seems to me that spotters won't be as good vs GK seeing as GK are a very mobile race. for me catachans work better almost every time.

[Crewfinity]

I don't know, it seems to me that spotters won't be as good vs GK seeing as GK are a very mobile race. for me catachans work better almost every time.

Catachans are also very good vs GK, at that point it comes down to compositions imo.

if they go for 1 or more ops then catachans are the better choice, they do a very good job at countering that unit. if they go for 3 IST or 2 SS and try to bully you in ranged firefights, then spotters perform better in my experience. they're both good units in that matchup though.