Lord commissar power claw/fist

[Corrie]

Ill start by saying these wargears are both very similar and decent on paper but I feel there is never ever a time I think buying the claw is worth it,

If anyone has played the commi you'll notice his base damage without a weapon is terrible and the power sword in t1 is needed in pretty much most match ups if you want him to level, the problem is in t2 if you want to actually buy the claw your investing 70 power into weapons alone and also you lose the charge from the sword. I know there's an argument not to buy the sword in t1 but right now it seems to be pretty much a must buy on him also by the time you have your base t2 units out on the field and are looking to get the claw it's always just better to wait until t3 and get the fist for pretty much the same cost with a game changing ability on top of it.

Any ideas of changing it to make it worth getting and different?

[egewithin]

I don't think this is an very serious issue. It is the same thing with '' Should I buy Power Sword? Uhmm, if I buy it, what about Thunder Hammer? '' So, nothing to worry about too much IMO.

Power Sword is a good pressure point in T1, specially for armored factions. It works good in T2 eather. You can still tie up Tactical Marines and hurt them pretty damm well, also you can use Lead by Example and buff them all since GM are still a good army in T2. Buff even more with every swing! Why should I not want Power Sword in T2? Maybe Power Sword becames weak in T3 late games. In that case, you can swicth to Fist and get None Shall Fall. Basic isn't it? Since the Sword paid off enough.

I get Claw if I didn't need Power Sword in T1 or there is an Assault Cannon Dread. And LC becames a big threat for enemys if he is tanky enough. Maybe an effect can come for Claw, it would be cool. Than we have to discuss which is better. Yes, that sound good.

Demorolize Effect
Lord Commisar decreases non-hero and non-vehicle units output damage by 10% and speed by 1 with every kill made by his mighty Claw. The effect cancels when the unit retreats.

or

Vehicle Snare
Lord Commisar slows down enemy vehicles by 30% while he is in melee combat with it. The effect remains even after he is out of melee for 5 seconds.

[Corrie]

It's simaliar to the force commanders situation yeah but the fc can actually bleed models and the battle cry alone makes him strong in t1 and most of the time, the power sword is nice but never a must have unless I was against Gk last patch, but with the commi the sword is a must,

Although that's not the issue, I would just like more versatility within his weapon choices as explained the claw and fist are pretty much the same weapon with same costs where as if we're comparing to fc who has 4 different weapons that all have there use in certain match ups and situations.

I dunno if there are much other commi players to chip in, the only other one I see is fredbrik and he just gets the sword 100% of the time even against non power armour races.

[DandyFrontline]

With stubborns and Claw LC make insane DPS to all targets actually. It surely worth 50 power

[egewithin]

It's simaliar to the force commanders situation yeah but the fc can actually bleed models and the battle cry alone makes him strong in t1 and most of the time, the power sword is nice but never a must have unless I was against Gk last patch, but with the commi the sword is a must,

Although that's not the issue, I would just like more versatility within his weapon choices as explained the claw and fist are pretty much the same weapon with same costs where as if we're comparing to fc who has 4 different weapons that all have there use in certain match ups and situations.

I dunno if there are much other commi players to chip in, the only other one I see is fredbrik and he just gets the sword 100% of the time even against non power armour races.

I think they are different enough but some new stuff would be nice to see eather . But lets take it in this way :

CLAW : Insane amounts of damage per hit. Very good counter vs jump troops as well as Sword but much better, a counter for Assault Cannon Dread or support vehicles, syngerzises or something happens with Stubbornness amazingly. 100% pure melee damage.

FIST : All the things above, Angels of Death before it nerfed hardly which costs energy insted of red with a shorter cooldown.

Well, if I do not have a proper army but I spawm Leman Russes, I can keep Claw insted of fist, remember this eather.

[Corrie]

Yeah I agree with the above its just too similar to justify getting this at the times I would look to get it, most of the time the power sword does well enough until end of t2 which by that time you might aswel wait for the fist which is so much better for an extra 100 req

But I agree the only time it's worth getting the claw is when you have no infantry left but even then the fist with a storm trooper squad with meltas to snipe a tank is still much more appealing for a little bit extra req.

[lolzarz]

That's true, but really, when you're playing Lord Commissar you really shouldn't be relying on Leman Russes to win you the damned thing. That's like relying on tanks while playing Apothecary; it's feasible, but the hero isn't being used to his maximum effect.

I agree something should be done about the internal balance of the 2 weapons, because infantry invincibility in radius 15 every 85 seconds for 50 requisition is a no-brainer. Make the claw a better weapon, give it a better pistol to go with, some sort of defensive buff for the commissar (would contrast nicely with the infantry support option of the fist), you get the idea.

[Torpid]

I think in that in team games the T2 power fist is mostly useless, but then, the period in which you ought to stay in T2 in team games is significantly smaller than in 3v3 and in general, tanky melee heroes just do a lot less work since there is more suppression/artillery to contorl them in narrower fighting spaces and also more ranged units to focus fire them down.

However in 1v1 the power klaw does mad levels of work come T2 vs races like orks and eldar - you bleed models very very easily and like the previous poster said, with stubbornness the sheer damage output of the LC is glorious. Still, that power sword ability is amazing and if you are struggling with dealing with enemy SUTs then it is invaluable even come T2 - whereas by the time you get to T3 SUTs are easy to deal with so you don't need the power sword and that ability is just too strong to miss. And of course in 1v1 most of the time you simply will not get to T3 and if you do you certainly won't be wasting 50 power on an ability - which is what you were doing or you would have got the klaw in T2.

I think more than the power klaw being UP though, the power sword is OP so you do raise a legitimate concern; I don't know why I would not get the power sword on my LC tbh. It is like the FC power sword except I retain a legendary calibre ranged weapon for T1 and the LC's specials are just much better than the FCs I find. And IG do way more damage than SM so the 15% damage buff per swing is mental and then there's the +3 speed which helps flank SUTs... Yeah... power sword is great.

[Vapor]

I sometimes go for the t2 fist in conjunction with flak jacket. The high damage per hit of the fist w stubbornness combined with inspire terror can threaten wipes on low model squads, especially combined with things like ol reliable and storm trooper nades.

[enasni127]

I think this issue is very easy to explain in a single sentence:

the power claw (finally) needs an ability to be worth upgrading from the power sword.

[Corrie]

I agree with most of what torpid said above in team games it's just a never ever buy but in 1v1 it's not great either I don't fancy waiting until I hit t2 and got my first unit out before i finally get my first weapon upgrade on my hero that which gives him nothing but extra damage and no extra versatility for 50 power when I could just give him a cheap power sword while I tech that does exactly what you need for half the cost and brings more versatility.

Although I wouldn't say the sword is op it's just become a go to purchase because there is no other option.

[Dark Riku]

I think this issue is very easy to explain in a single sentence:

the power claw (finally) needs an ability to be worth upgrading from the power sword.

Or maybe the power sword is overperforming and the claw is fine.

You guys also think the HT's crushing claws need an ability?

[Crewfinity]

Or maybe the power sword is overperforming and the claw is fine.

You guys also think the HT's crushing claws need an ability?

QFT

heavy melee commander items are an attractive enough purchase on their own. if anything the fist of brockus should be looked at, rather than the power claw.

[egewithin]

Btw, I just realised that Power Claw does higher damage per hit than Chrusing Claw but looses at dps. Ahahahahaaa! Go Commisar!

[Torpid]

Btw, I just realised that Power Claw does higher damage per hit than Chrusing Claw but looses at dps. Ahahahahaaa! Go Commisar!

When he is near 2 squads of guardsmen fully upgraded with few model losses (20-24) then he is doing 127dps which is the highest in the game. HT with CC being 108dps, farseer with singing spear and guide on herself doing 100dps then.

Doing more damage per hit than the HT is not THAT impressive though since the HT does have an extremely quick attack.

[enasni127]

I think this issue is very easy to explain in a single sentence:

the power claw (finally) needs an ability to be worth upgrading from the power sword.

Or maybe the power sword is overperforming and the claw is fine.

need an ability?

I really think the claw is fine. But also I think it is not much needed. The power sword performs well against infantry and vs walkers i prefer a lascannon setup team and vs transports on t2 it's often easier to use storm troopers with melta guns.
So -> IF <- i buy the power sword on t1 i will usually not buy the power claw. I would only buy the power claw if i didn't buy the sword on t1 and face early vehicles on t2 - and even then it's usually a good idea to add some dedicated anti vehicle weapons with snare just to make sure i really get that vehicle down and it won't annoy me the rest of the game.

[Bahamut]

the real issue is that fist of brockus is just the claw but with an ability so it's just an unimpressive choice.. of course the fist is totally better than the claw, just that it's t3 and moving from claw to fist just feels... bad . It's nothing to do with the sword vs the klaw, but the klaw and the fist being just too alike

I'd nerf fist of brockus to 70 dps or so. that way at least both weapons got their advantages and disadvantages "do i want alot of damage with the klaw or do i want the support from the fist?"

[egewithin]

the real issue is that fist of brockus is just the claw but with an ability so it's just an unimpressive choice.. of course the fist is totally better than the claw, just that it's t3 and moving from claw to fist just feels... bad . It's nothing to do with the sword vs the klaw, but the klaw and the fist being just too alike

I'd nerf fist of brockus to 70 dps or so. that way at least both weapons got their advantages and disadvantages "do i want alot of damage with the klaw or do i want the support from the fist?"

You really ignore the None Shall Fall abilitys power. And it is worth for that prize.