Rippers

[hiveminion]

I think these guys are overperforming quite a bit considering their measly 100 req cost. Since their reinforcement cost is 10 req, there isn't even any economical difference between reinforcing them or just repurchasing the squad.

They shut down ranged units very effectively and this alone is worth their purchase. On top of that they now do increased damage, which although not considerable, can no longer be ignored by squads tied up in melee with them. Although AoE does a good job damaging them it's very difficult to land grenades and such on them flush because they are so fast and they can spread out quite a bit when engaging in melee. Flamers do a good job but against Eldar they've got pretty much free reign until the Prisms come out.

I feel Rippers should be a throw-away unit like Spore Mines and so shouldn't be able to retreat (maybe not even able to reinforce, although Swarmlord + Rippers is lulz). I think the damage buff was unwarranted and should be removed, they should be tying stuff up not actually beating something in melee.

If Rippers remain the way they are I feel their cost should be increased to something like 160/180 req, and the same expense should be made when spawning them from Thornbacks.

[saltychipmunk]

vs eldar? the race with so many fantastically ridiculous control abilities on their commanders? you sure?

[Atlas]

Not to mention Rippers can retreat! Everyone complains about Terminators retreating when clearly Rippers have been OP since way before

[Vapor]

re: saltychipmunk, if the Eldar is using his control abilities on your rippers then you've already won. I mean the wargears are more expensive than the rippers

[egewithin]

If we called Rippers as overperformed, there are some things dead in this forum from now on.

[saltychipmunk]

re: saltychipmunk, if the Eldar is using his control abilities on your rippers then you've already won. I mean the wargears are more expensive than the rippers

well fortunately eldar can use their control abilities on multiple armies at a time so we are safe for now.

[Torpid]

Rippers were OP ever since capillary towers were introduced.

[appiah4]

As a primarily SM and Ork player I never had trouble against rippers; as SM I find even Tacticals can deal with them in melee. As Orks I can just sic some sluggas on them for free XP.

[Dalakh]

The problem is not what they kill but that they can run a ccross the field to tie setups up no problem for almost no cost

[appiah4]

The problem is not what they kill but that they can run a ccross the field to tie setups up no problem for almost no cost

Isn't that the whole point of the unit though? Tyranids have no answer to setup teams aside from Raveners who are terrible glasscannons in melee anyway..

I guess disallowing reinforcement would probably fix them AFAIC; effectively make them a 100 req one time investment.

[Torpid]

The problem is not what they kill but that they can run a ccross the field to tie setups up no problem for almost no cost

Isn't that the whole point of the unit though? Tyranids have no answer to setup teams aside from Raveners who are terrible glasscannons in melee anyway..

I guess disallowing reinforcement would probably fix them AFAIC; effectively make them a 100 req one time investment.

ZOANTHROPES.

The most overpowered artillery unit in the bloody game. No set-up, great damage, can knock heroes about, snaares vehicles, buffs all nearby infantry, practically impossible to kill.

Even without you have the TG too, and then raveners. Not to mention, well, you are nids. just flank with your melee or a BSWB, you have the speed advantage as nids so use it.

It wouldn't fix them at all; they are too strong, spawning randomly on the field being able to tie up a random squad for 100req. They win engagements. That's well worth 100req since aslug-fest of an engagement will often lead to bleed that is more than 100req. They're especially bad come T3 when the carnifexes/SL rolls out and you need endless lascannons to deal with them but there's multiple rippers running about.

[hiveminion]

...practically impossible to kill...

Kinda off-topic but you can't get away with that claim. Zoanthropes are among the frailest units in the game. Snipers, jump troops and infiltrators can wipe them in seconds.

OT: anyone disregarding balance issues with Rippers simply because they are Rippers is really missing the point.

As for Eldar control abilities, remember they are immune to suppression so you lose a few of them there. Also if you're using Entangling Web or Timefield on a squad of Rippers, you're not using them on the Hive Tyrant/Genestealers/whatever so that's a fair deal for the Nids I'd say. Not to mention I'd get two squads of Rippers vs Eldar anyway, since they usually have two or more ranged threats running around.

[Torpid]

...practically impossible to kill...

Kinda off-topic but you can't get away with that claim. Zoanthropes are among the frailest units in the game. Snipers, jump troops and infiltrators can wipe them in seconds.

OT: anyone disregarding balance issues with Rippers simply because they are Rippers is really missing the point.

As for Eldar control abilities, remember they are immune to suppression so you lose a few of them there. Also if you're using Entangling Web or Timefield on a squad of Rippers, you're not using them on the Hive Tyrant/Genestealers/whatever so that's a fair deal for the Nids I'd say. Not to mention I'd get two squads of Rippers vs Eldar anyway, since they usually have two or more ranged threats running around.

Comeon... Jump troops can't fathomably kill zoanthropes. Only raptors can due to that ability they get+the suppression which forces an instant retreat. Their shield makes them immune to knockback and you can kite everything else alongside a nice crippling poison. If your zoan is out on its own, sure it might get wrecked by infiltrated T2 sluggas, but then a battlewagon is easy to kill when alone too.

Snipers ever since their nerf now are just downright meh vs zoans. They will force them off eventually but quite frankly they will never kill it because it's too damn obvious - how many shots does it take to kill a zoan now? 5 or 6? Way too many to ever hope to kill one vs a good player unless you have triple snipers or something.

And yeah, infiltration vs nids. Hilarious prospect.

[Metal C0Mmander]

Comeon... Jump troops can't fathomably kill zoanthropes. Only raptors can due to that ability they get+the suppression which forces an instant retreat. Their shield makes them immune to knockback and you can kite everything else alongside a nice crippling poison. If your zoan is out on its own, sure it might get wrecked by infiltrated T2 sluggas, but then a battlewagon is easy to kill when alone too.

Jump troops can't kill zoanthropes... I'm sorry. What the fuck have you been smoking? Yeah the shield might make them ivunerable to knockback but They don't have these things up at all time now do they? And not all jump troops are used for disruption, some are all about dps. And if the jump troops get hit by crippling poison (Which is pretty hard to do quick enough to ensure the zoan doesn't die) then the zoan still got disrupted and you can bring in your army to shoot at it. And even if all you manage to do is have it retreat then what's the problem? The zoanthrope isn't around anymore and it's not shooting at you. Hell if you're lucky enough it shat it's retreat path and went straight to your commander.

[Wise Windu]

Yeah the shield might make them ivunerable to knockback but They don't have these things up at all time now do they?

They should, especially at the beginning of an engagement when the jump troops will be active. Not having the shield up means it's either retreating, already in base, or the Tyranid player messed up by not having the shield on. And if you know your opponent has jump troops that will be going after your zoan, you should be ready with the crippling poison to prevent a wipe on your very important artillery unit.

[Torpid]

Comeon... Jump troops can't fathomably kill zoanthropes. Only raptors can due to that ability they get+the suppression which forces an instant retreat. Their shield makes them immune to knockback and you can kite everything else alongside a nice crippling poison. If your zoan is out on its own, sure it might get wrecked by infiltrated T2 sluggas, but then a battlewagon is easy to kill when alone too.

Jump troops can't kill zoanthropes... I'm sorry. What the fuck have you been smoking? Yeah the shield might make them ivunerable to knockback but They don't have these things up at all time now do they? And not all jump troops are used for disruption, some are all about dps. And if the jump troops get hit by crippling poison (Which is pretty hard to do quick enough to ensure the zoan doesn't die) then the zoan still got disrupted and you can bring in your army to shoot at it. And even if all you manage to do is have it retreat then what's the problem? The zoanthrope isn't around anymore and it's not shooting at you. Hell if you're lucky enough it shat it's retreat path and went straight to your commander.

Please 1v1 a good nid and show me how this is done.

I may be such a 'good nid' or maybe 'tex' could be? It is impossible to kill zoanthropes with jump troops in the hands of any competant player. You see jump troops coming from miles away so you put the shield up. Microing to put a shield up and use crippling poison is extremely easy and your terms should always be nearby to your zoan anyway for this very reason. you jump in, get snared, the zoan moves back, you get forced off, and you're back at the problem of being out-ranged.

[Metal C0Mmander]

I may be such a 'good nid' or maybe 'tex' could be? It is impossible to kill zoanthropes with jump troops in the hands of any competant player. You see jump troops coming from miles away so you put the shield up. Microing to put a shield up and use crippling poison is extremely easy and your terms should always be nearby to your zoan anyway for this very reason. you jump in, get snared, the zoan moves back, you get forced off, and you're back at the problem of being out-ranged.

My god you are complaining about being unable to kill and a unit that has 500 health with it's shield up. If you can't kill them with jump units then be agressive and bring in someone else to hit it. The only thing you can't do against it is sitting back and trying to out shoot it because you can do that to almost any tyranid units.

Yeah the shield might make them ivunerable to knockback but They don't have these things up at all time now do they?

They should, especially at the beginning of an engagement when the jump troops will be active. Not having the shield up means it's either retreating, already in base, or the Tyranid player messed up by not having the shield on.

That or he was low on energy after snaring some vehicules and the player was not expecting having to fight for a while.

[egewithin]

My god you are complaining about being unable to kill and a unit that has 500 health with it's shield up. If you can't kill them with jump units then be agressive and bring in someone else to hit it. The only thing you can't do against it is sitting back and trying to out shoot it because you can do that to almost any tyranid units.

Zoans shield will be up. and you can't knockback him. In that case, you can't have free swings on him. Secondly; he will directly kite away so you will not be able to use your chainswords. That means, you have to hunt it down with boltpistols and you know how effective they will be in this situation. Thirdly, you can outshoot Genestealers.

That or he was low on energy after snaring some vehicules and the player was not expecting having to fight for a while.

Your plan fails if you have no vehicles around. But still, this is a good point to spotlight on.