Tyranid capillary tower and Eldar Webway nerf

[Commissar Yarrick]

I believe I speak out for many people out there who have been just fed up enough about eldar webway and Tyrannid capillary tower spam. Both are fine ideas to use but they are currently unbalanced.

Eldar Webway: Cost 50 red. instant transportation, hero specific ability and stealth.

- Here we see the problem. They are too damn cheap! Today Eldar do not dominate the maps solely on skill but with massive webway networks which let them to have fast and cheap travel from one corner of a map to another. To solve this "abuse" I request its cost to be increased to 75 red [global resource] and 50-100 requisition [higher price may be better] + longer cooldown. This way we can solve the issue of instant map control, and also to make the match more fair.

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Tyranid capillary tower: Cost 35 red. Grans speed buff [out of combat even I've seen in combat models benefit from this], basic synapse, detection (something I have heard but have not take note myself), spore mine and ripper spawning point.

- First of all instant production and having the tower being uncrushable is stupid. I say, make the tower being more like brood nest (hive tyrant global) when in production, not having it just pop out of the blue like it was nothing. While in production from medium, and up from there, crushers can stomp it from taking root. We can see the same system in IG heavy turrets and Bunkers. If you have a crusher run over the "production zone" it destroys the building and also wont refund you the resources. This idea is to deny capillary path blocking. Too many times have people lost a vehicle and, or, a unit to a tower that pops up in the path blocking the movement and trapping the poor sod. Furthermore I suggest the tower's ability to spawn spore mines and rippers to be removed. Having these forward line unit spawn points are unfair the least. If one wants to have these two units in the field, spawn them from your base like every one does!

[XPhial]

I can agree with the gates there's already a topic on that. The towers though okay I can see the vehicle block thing but removing Rippers / Spore mines? You know how much a ripper squad cost if you use red to spawn them in much less how much is wasted when their lost?? Taking their spawns away seems like a really bad idea in all honesty. Vehicle path blocking not sure if that's intended or not but I cant say much on that (since I never did that before nor have I seen it done to other players)

[Indrid]

AFAIK towers don't provide synapse anymore, just the speed and sight radius buffs.

There are already threads discussing both of these things so I don't know why you made another, and in the wrong section.

[Commissar Yarrick]

AFAIK towers don't provide synapse anymore, just the speed and sight radius buffs.

There are already threads discussing both of these things so I don't know why you made another, and in the wrong section.

This is balance discussion is it not? Secondly I have not noticed any topic of this before nor have I heard there ever was so I chose to make my own.

[Codex]

There's an ongoing discussion of both in the Eldar and Nid threads respectively.

[Indrid]

This is balance discussion is it not? Secondly I have not noticed any topic of this before nor have I heard there ever was so I chose to make my own.

Because I moved it here, Yarrick. Check the edit message on the first post. There are discussions of these things in their faction's topics, not hard to find.

[Commissar Yarrick]

This is balance discussion is it not? Secondly I have not noticed any topic of this before nor have I heard there ever was so I chose to make my own.

Because I moved it here, Yarrick. Check the edit message on the first post. There are discussions of these things in their faction's topics, not hard to find.

Indeed but by the time this post was made I did not take notice about you moving it here, nor did I notice I put the topic into wrong area at first (was being silly). I got requests to make this topic so I did it, but in any case this topic can then be removed, if need be, since this issue seems to be in the noticeboard.

[saltychipmunk]

but I like my capillary forests,

I also disagree about the capillary towers being crush able.
They aren't free like ravener tunnels, they cost red to make and use. Being able to use something like a t1 sentinal or a razorback to go around crushing spires seems realyl cheesy.

Think about it this way, The only way you gain a benifit from them is if they are near or on in the thick of a combat zone. For such an item to work it needs to have a certain amount of durability. enough to last a fight which right now they do. But if you make them crush able they lose much of that durability.


Now I do think they should have a short build time like say 3 -5 seconds before they are fully formed during which they are crush-able ( to prevent capillary cheese blocking kiting vehicles.

But once they are up , they should take bullets to take down.

[Ace of Swords]

There's an ongoing discussion of both in the Eldar and Nid threads respectively.

eldar thread is locked.

I also disagree about the capillary towers being crush able.
They aren't free like ravener tunnels, they cost red to make and use. Being able to use something like a t1 sentinal or a razorback to go around crushing spires seems realyl cheesy.

It's way more cheesy having towers all over the map from your base to the enemy base connected to every VP, and not only they give you a huge retreat killing potential/anti-retreat killing in favor of nids aswell as a very fast travel both in retreat and advance, oh that wasn't enough? they give a decent sight range, still not enough? setup teams bothering you? no prob spawn rippers, want to get a retreat kill np spawn mines.

[saltychipmunk]

Its not like they are indestructible , 300 hp seems perfectly reasonable.
I feel its the same situation as ravener tunnels.

Yeah if you let the nid amass a bunch of them over time, then they will have a huge advantage. For tunnels its the ability to go anywhere on the map instantly

for the towers is passive buffs.


besides to get that capillary forest the nid needs to spend a decent amount of red.
not to mention making the forest implies the nid won the map control game to place them in the first place.

And i feel if we add a build time to them they wont be as abuseable when placed on the path of a retreating army.

[Lag]

Tunnels can be crushed, are clearly visible both on screen and on the mini-map, and you don't have to risk a single unit coming into melee range to detect them, only to have the entire Eldar army popping out of it. Not to mention the regen/cloak abilities which are pretty damn insane. You can't compare Ravener turrets to Webway gates.

[saltychipmunk]

Tunnels can be crushed, are clearly visible both on screen and on the mini-map, and you don't have to risk a single unit coming into melee range to detect them, only to have the entire Eldar army popping out of it. Not to mention the regen/cloak abilities which are pretty damn insane. You can't compare Ravener turrets to Webway gates.

Im not , not even talking about web ways mate ,I am talking about ravener tunnels and capillary towers . I used ravener tunnels in a comparison to capillary towers.

I was explaining that both tunnels and towers are preventable threats if you knock them down while there are few and are only a problem if you let it become one.



If you want me to talk about web ways , sure . They are extremely op , but considering how insanely fragile eldar units are , they are necessary , I grant you in a nerfed form. They need changes

[Dark Riku]

There's an ongoing discussion of both in the Eldar and Nid threads respectively.

eldar thread is locked.

Look at the date. The thread was not locked then.

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I also disagree about the capillary towers being crush able.

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They aren't.

[Codex]

Did you really have to necro a thread where the previous post was over 3 months ago?

And while Ace has noted that the Eldar thread is locked, the Nid one isn't. Further, the nid thread already has some discussion about capillary towers, and I'm pretty sure that saltychipmunk has not read that before posting here.

I'm going to leave this thread open to allow the discussion to continue, but if at all possible we should try to keep all of the relevant discussion in one thread so that everyone can read and be on the same page of the discussion.

[Lag]

Tunnels can be crushed, are clearly visible both on screen and on the mini-map, and you don't have to risk a single unit coming into melee range to detect them, only to have the entire Eldar army popping out of it. Not to mention the regen/cloak abilities which are pretty damn insane. You can't compare Ravener turrets to Webway gates.

Im not , not even talking about web ways mate ,I am talking about ravener tunnels and capillary towers . I used ravener tunnels in a comparison to capillary towers.

I was explaining that both tunnels and towers are preventable threats if you knock them down while there are few and are only a problem if you let it become one.



If you want me to talk about web ways , sure . They are extremely op , but considering how insanely fragile eldar units are , they are necessary , I grant you in a nerfed form. They need changes

Pardon me, I misunderstood you!

[Torpid]

Eldar unit synergy and speed already more than makes up for their fragility. The way you worded that sentence implies that eldar need webways to compete, they really don't, but it certainly helps them.