Army overviews for new players.

[Psiborg]

I'd love to see brief army overviews added to the codex for players (such as myself) who are not only new to DoW2 and the Elite mod, but also to the Warhammer 40K universe in general.

What I'm looking for are defining characteristics (pros/cons) and, in general terms, how each faction compares to the others. Also, a few comments on Elite specific changes so we can understand how they differ from stock would be helpful.

Learning all the armies/units takes a lot of time and something like this from experienced players would really help us new guys oriented much more quickly. I know all the stats are in the codex but while that's great for a deep dive into unit comparisons, it doesn't paint the big picture I'm looking for.

The goal here would be to get a quick understanding of the principals behind how each army was designed/balanced so we can determine which faction is best suited to a particular play style.

Thanks for the consideration. Also, this website is not only informative but beautiful BTW - nice work!

EDIT: Later in the thread I added a chart I made for new users to learn the units and their counters. I'll update this first post with the most current version so it's easy to find for anyone who stumbles on this thread. If the image is missing, PM me and I'll fix the link.




Edit 2 - The decorator descriptions (source: Dawn of War wiki) are also probably useful to add here:

[Swift]

It would be a very nice feature to have, just requires a bit of attention and that's the only downside I can see. It certainly helps to know the lore and tabletop but I know a fair amount of players who knew neither when starting.

And yes, the website aesthetic is great.

[Wise Windu]

Yeah, this kind of thing came up once before, but never ended up happening. It would be a nice thing to have, but someone would have to write it first, of course. There are more advanced and basic tips from players, but they're dispersed throughout the forums, so it would be nice to have it centralized.

And yes, the website aesthetic is great.

Praise be to Lulgrim

[Psiborg]

I don't know the community and have no idea who could write the information but there's got to be some active die-hard vets out there, no? What about the mod author(s)?

I'm starting with the Eldar and this is the best information I've found so far but does not take the Elite mod into consideration. Details on this site could be much briefer as I described above and still be extremely helpful.

Anybody want to step up and contribute? We could really use this info.

If not, what about a stickied thread on each army pros/cons or something? Right now it is scattered and incomplete. For it to be useful, it needs to be in one place. Perhaps if enough posts are collected it would serve as a base for inclusion in the codex later?

[Swift]

There are plenty of veterans playing, the problem is time and format.

[Atlas]

I would be willing to write this kind of thing for a couple factions but:

1) I don't really know all the changes from retail to elite. I can read them off the list but I can't really give strategy tips outside of what's in elite.

2) I'm not a super expert so I can only give fairly broad advice and talk about wargear, units and commanders.

Still, I'd be willing to actually do what I can in this aspect. I'll give you guys an update in this thread if this goes beyond just talk!

Yes, praise be to Lulgrim for the amazing site aesthetic! And welcome to the forum bro!

[Torpid]

What we should have is a thread that has on it every change made from retail to the incumbent elite mod patch.

[Batpimp]

I don't know the community and have no idea who could write the information but there's got to be some active die-hard vets out there, no? What about the mod author(s)?

I'm starting with the Eldar and this is the best information I've found so far but does not take the Elite mod into consideration. Details on this site could be much briefer as I described above and still be extremely helpful.

Anybody want to step up and contribute? We could really use this info.

If not, what about a stickied thread on each army pros/cons or something? Right now it is scattered and incomplete. For it to be useful, it needs to be in one place. Perhaps if enough posts are collected it would serve as a base for inclusion in the codex later?

if you want some tips and guidance find me on steam

Batpimp

I don't mind playing a few times with you to teach you. Then we can record my games on twitch and it will benefit others.

[Dark Riku]

What we should have is a thread that has on it every change made from retail to the incumbent elite mod patch.

Like this ...? http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... gelog_full

[Torpid]

What we should have is a thread that has on it every change made from retail to the incumbent elite mod patch.

Like this ...? http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... gelog_full

Yes

When did that get updated? Awesome. NVM to my post then. That changelog had been un-updated for so long that I forgot that link on the elite homepage existed.

[Psiborg]

If you want some tips and guidance find me on steam

I don't mind playing a few times with you to teach you. Then we can record my games on twitch and it will benefit others.

Thanks! I appreciate the offer. I'm not actually new to Relic's RTS games (I've played Company of Heroes for years) but, as mentioned, am new to DoW, Elite and WH40K.

So, it's more units/counters information I'm looking for than a how to play.

On a related note, I found this thread on Eldar Advice extremely helpful! This is exactly the kind of information I'm looking for. This forum has a wealth of good information, it's just takes some digging.

I still think a summary of this sort of thing would do well being added to the codex though. Here's hoping

[Wise Windu]

If people write it, I'll add it in.

[Wise Windu]

Soooo, anyone want to do this?

[Atlas]

As I said, I'm interested but I'm not sure if I actually have the necessary body of knowledge. If we're just looking for a mid-level sort of guide than sure though.

[Wise Windu]

Yeah, nothing too high level. Just a sort of general outline of uses, benefits, or whatever of squads, commanders, and stuff like that, and also a general overview of the race.

Like Psiborg says in the OP I guess, "defining characteristics (pros/cons) and, in general terms, how each faction compares to the others"

[Psiborg]

I'm still too green to contribute to the text but I cobbled together this quick summary chart to help me learn the units. As I'm picking up Eldar first (and my buddies are learning the other factions) I've only included these 4 so far.

The in game unit decorators are helpful to see what sort of attack type a unit has, but there isn't any indication of what it's armour type is. This chart lets me quickly see the armour and HP/#models a unit has enabling me to figure out a good counter.

I don't know if you'd like to include something like this in the Codex but I find having everything on one page is helpful for quick reference. Tankbustas info is missing from the Codex though!

This is obviously a work in progress. If anyone would like me to complete it for all the factions, just let me know.

(Also, if the image below is missing, it probably just got nuked from my Dropbox folder. Ping me and I'll post again somewhere more permanent.)

EDIT: Outdated image removed. Look for a current version later in the thread.

Damn those Grey Knights are tanky!

[Wise Windu]

That's a cool chart. Maybe will add something like that eventually. Tbh though, I don't have the time or motivation to do that much html right now

Tankbustas info is missing from the Codex though!

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Same for Chosen Plague Marines. I'll try to get that sorted out.

[Dark Riku]

that looks pretty good, might be useful for beginners.

[Swift]

That looks really rather proper. Well done.

[destructomat]

This chart lets me quickly see the armour and HP/#models a unit has enabling me to figure out a good counter.



Damn those Grey Knights are tanky!

I love the chart- I've spent some time looking through the codex/ wiki to get a sense of the armor types already. By the way, I think the icons may be misleading regarding a unit's strongest attack- for instance, a banshee squad that gets an exarch with glaive gets a hammer icon, which I assume means "heavy melee", even though the codex indicates that the rank and file banshees are still doing only power melee damage.

Yes, the grey knights, and space marines in general are both heavily invested in infantry armor.

[welshy]

I am currently in the progress of developing a YouTube series to run in parallel with my fight club videos.

The aim will be to introduce new players to the game, including the races, basics, technicals and some tips.

The first video will be coming out this weekend.


If anyone has any suggestions, fire away


Sam

[Psiborg]

Here you go welchy. As requested in your PM, here is the latest version of the chart that I made. As you can see, it's still incomplete and missing the blue 'type' icons for many of the models and a few other stats (e.g. Plague Marine costs) that weren't available when I made it.

I haven't made a legend yet but, as you can probably figure out, the white cost numbers are:

Total Cost / Number of Models + Cost for Leader/Upgrade

Having it displayed this way helped me with not only total cost but also cost per model to help me judge strength, etc.

If you (or anyone else) has the missing info. Just post it here or point me in the right direction and I'll update the chart if people are finding it useful.

Good luck with the tutorials!

EDIT: Outdated image removed. Look for a current version later in the thread.

[egewithin]

Grey Knight inteceptors and Purgation squad tiers are different.

[Narcolepsy]

Hello,

newish to the boards/you might have seen me sucking badly in game.

In the real world I do copywriting and stuff (appeal to authority, yeah) so I figure this is probably the place to stick my brain. Formatting wise, I would suggest a sub forum for each race with the following chapters:

1) Fluff/background.
One of the things I love most about 40k (since my tabletop days in the early 90s) has been the fluff side. The backstory to the races, chapters, warbands and craftworlds is easily compilable from the wikias/lexicanium for people who want to learn more about the belligerents in the game. For example, there's the elite skins like the World Eaters or Exodites that have been added. Aside from looking cool, it might be fun to put in the history. Plus for writewhores like me, it'd be a fun project to do. So we'd have Board Index>Website>Dawn of War Codex>Beginners Guide>Spess Mehreens>Background>Dark Angels, and so on.

2) Tactics 101

A brief overview of how2play. As a newbie since 2.4.1 (and a whole... err... two weeks of retail multiplayer before that) one of the steepest learning curves has been learning the T1 builds/counters. Digging through here helped, but it's a bit all over the shop. What I'm talking here is the very basics of how not to suck, so you can start playing a little better before delving into the codex with a magnifying glass.(I understand I'm probably repeating some of what has been said in this thread already from this point, but I'm just brain dumping.)

I would suggest compiling relevant tactical videos (like welshy has suggested) in here too.

Board Index>Website>Dawn of War Codex>Beginners Guide>Eldar>Tactics 101>Video Tutorials, etc.

3) Infographics

The above chart blows my balls off. (that's a good thing, for none-brits.) In its own thread, with a discussion underneath for questions/queries would be cool. A bit of an intro about why this chart is needed, how DOW works with counters and such. The codex is a masterpiece, but for us noobs who don't learn good it can be a bit..."so what does that even mean tho."

Board Index>Website>Dawn of War Codex>Beginners Guide>Know Your Enemy


[brain dump complete]

I'd be well up for working some fluff together. Literally everthing else I would have no idea what I'm doing.

[Dark Riku]

Just glanced over the thing.
Noticed catachans should get a + inside their white diamond as they are fire resistant infantry.

[Psiborg]

Grey Knight inteceptors and Purgation squad tiers are different.

Appreciate the heads up and just checked the codex for reference. Grey Knights (and perhaps others) have had significant changes since I played last. I see that model names/tiers have been adjusted and perhaps also balance changes to cost with recent updates? I'm headed out of town for the week but will check this thread and the codex when I'm back for updates and amend the chart to be in sync with the most recent patch.

The above chart blows my balls off. (that's a good thing, for none-brits.)

Thanks Narcolepsy! (Rough break about your balls )

Just glanced over the thing. Noticed catachans should get a + inside their white diamond as they are fire resistant infantry.

Updated - thx. This is exactly the type of helpful checking I'm looking for.

The thing I could use the most help with is the decorators as that information is not in the codex. The way I've got them so far is to play as each faction and build each unit in game which is tedious and time consuming. So if anyone can help with that, by either describing it here or posting a link to a screenshot of the unit with its decorator - that would be much appreciated.

[Narcolepsy]

Thanks Narcolepsy! (Rough break about your balls )

Eh, I'm getting on a bit, they were just sitting there doing nothin anyway.

Are the Land raiders/Baneblade not super heavy?

[Wise Windu]

Are the Land raiders/Baneblade not super heavy?

No, there isn't a "Heavy Vehicle" armor type. They just have a lot of health

[Narcolepsy]

Learn summat new every day.

[Wise Windu]

The thing I could use the most help with is the decorators as that information is not in the codex. The way I've got them so far is to play as each faction and build each unit in game which is tedious and time consuming. So if anyone can help with that, by either describing it here or posting a link to a screenshot of the unit with its decorator - that would be much appreciated.

Here are most of them: http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Dawn_of_War_II_decorators

There are a couple new ones in Elite, but that's the basic idea.