NID players , I askith you Questions.

[saltychipmunk]

So i have a itch to play some nids in the near future and wanted some balance related questions addressed.


1 is the quad gaunt opener actually worth it? So recently gaunts had their hp and cost reduced in an attempt to make the race swarmier. ( normal nids already had 3+ gaunt squads prior to this change and the change basically puts a nid about 25% closer too that 4th gaunt).

That being said does anyone think that actually worked? since the change have you felt using an extra gaunt squad was an optimal (not saying viable because i know it is viable) choice over your old less gaunty style?

Or have you kept your old build and simply used the cheaper gaunts as a way to get your warriors / raveners faster instead?

I have done both builds but i cant really say i have a conclusion in that regard.


2 is the hormagaunt t1 15 power upgrade worth it? it says 10% and 10% damage and 50% longer charge range which sounds cool but it doesn't sound 15 power.

If it is worth it... is it worth getting before other t1 power sinks. So far for me that answer is a flat no. currently i upgrade my terma gaunts and grab a warrior/ravener and leave the hormas without the upgrade.


3 should spore mines have a unit cap? I have been able to do some very very very VERY cheesy things by abusing spore mine spams since they have a ridiculously high hp pool for their cost.

[hiveminion]

Triple Termas is pretty good vs IG or some tanky melee commanders. But yeah don't get attached to them because you're gonna lose some or all of them in T3, especially in team games.

Hormagaunt upgrade in T1 is only really necessary if you're using them against other melee squads with Warrior support. But crippling posion/Warrior/Ravener definitely comes first.

Dunno about Spore Mine spam...

[saltychipmunk]

Triple Termas is pretty good vs IG or some tanky melee commanders. But yeah don't get attached to them because you're gonna lose some or all of them in T3, especially in team games.

Hormagaunt upgrade in T1 is only really necessary if you're using them against other melee squads with Warrior support. But crippling posion/Warrior/Ravener definitely comes first.

Dunno about Spore Mine spam...

well the spore mine thing is exploitable in team games in that you can use them to essentially skip a tier by keeping an opponent occupied fully.
It doesn't matter if you lose them because they are so light on the economy that you spam a few of them chase squads with them , speed tech to t2 and have essentially zero upkeep to get your real damage dealers usually in the form of 5 or 6 zoanthropes which you then use to snipe insta pop squads. very fun to do but good lord its not how the game should ever be played

5 -600 hp is a small number on a high model count gaunt squad that you might want to care about. but it is plenty for spore mines which cost a pittance

[Sub_Zero]

2 is the hormagaunt t1 15 power upgrade worth it? it says 10% and 10% damage and 50% longer charge range which sounds cool but it doesn't sound 15 power.

UP upgrade for this cost. Buff the upgrade or decrease the cost. I never bother to buy it, every other resource investment is so much better (be that strangler, devourers or simply raveners and warriors themselves, or even spore mines, not even tellin about that amazing crippling poison), only in cases when I tech and can afford to spend resources on it to slightly make hormagaunts better. Hormagaunts are UP I think. I like how nobody ever mentions them when there is a talk about melee brawls and melee brawlers. And if you are gonna say that they are good against ranged units. And so what about other melee units? All of them get abilities to mitigate ranged damage, have better melee skill, have better damage type and better damage output overall. Hormagaunts at the very bottom of all melee units. I can somehow justify their existence now when they become cheap to reinforce in T2 but other than that they are bad, really bad and a lot of it has to do with their dull upgrade.

[Atlas]

Hormas are very very efficient if you want them to be. They do excellent damage for their cost and the upgrade just makes them even better on the edges of the map where you won't find many threats to them.

I wouldn't call the adrenal glands upgrade for them necessary though. The benefits it gives are very nice tbh, but I think the toxin sacs on terms or getting a quicker 4th squad is a better option early on. Later in the game, there really isn't a reason not to get it.

You don't often hear about hormas taking on forces in melee fights because that isn't really their purpose imo. Even with synapse, they don't have the tonnage to compete with bigger forces and the lack of specials don't help. Instead, you should be using your terms to cripple the incoming melee and focus it down before it becomes a problem, leaving your speed 6.5 hormas (usually with synapse too) to wreak havoc on the enemy ranged forces.

I was kinda making a similar point with banshees in a stream I made yesterday; they're not designed to lead a charge because they don't always have the hp for that. Use that superior speed to get into a better position and get to targets that they can really tear into.

[Dullahan]

Never build four squads of gaunts, if you want to actually have requisition.

I go 2x Horma 1x Terma and then either a warrior brood or a ravener. I like to get a spore mine or two for those early game engagements as well.

Nids are swarmy enough by the mid game since you'll usually have 7 or 8 squads to manage. I usually end up with a warrior brood, raveners, tyrant guard, zoanthrope and genestealers and a venom brood on top of my gaunts/gants.

[HiveSpirit]

Atlas making a good point.

I havnt really seen any tyranid players going with just two gaunts, that would be fun and interesting to watch if anyone got a vid/ link.

I usually go with:
1 RA+horma+terma+horma+spore
2 HT+horma+terma+terma+spore
3 LA+horma+terma+terma+spore (not so good with LA).
For the first encounter.

Horma adrenal gland use to come in t2-3 if i go with adrenal gland warriors, i take buy it every now and then, but its low priority (nothing wrong with that tho).

[Cyris]

I know Cheekie runs a 1 horma, 2 terma, warrior, Rav + Dev build in T1 which does a number on my GK. It's very suited to nids "supper aggro" style. T2 is AG into whatever is needed based on what your enemy is fielding.

[Dullahan]

Atlas making a good point.

I havnt really seen any tyranid players going with just two gaunts, that would be fun and interesting to watch if anyone got a vid/ link.

I usually go with:
1 RA+horma+terma+horma+spore
2 HT+horma+terma+terma+spore
3 LA+horma+terma+terma+spore (not so good with LA).
For the first encounter.

Horma adrenal gland use to come in t2-3 if i go with adrenal gland warriors, i take buy it every now and then, but its low priority (nothing wrong with that tho).

There's no benefit to going with 2 gaunts. You trade away any early game advantage you may gain for no reason by doing that. You'd have to play more passively and it's not like you'd get warriors/raveners any quicker by doing it. Better to use 3 squads and take advantage of superior map control and flanking opportunities.

[HiveSpirit]

There's no benefit to going with 2 gaunts. You trade away any early game advantage you may gain for no reason by doing that. You'd have to play more passively and it's not like you'd get warriors/raveners any quicker by doing it. Better to use 3 squads and take advantage of superior map control and flanking opportunities.

Max power (sm) and PhatE (eldar) seem to mostly play with commander + 2 units (early t1), made me whonder if its a viable playstyle for nids aswell.
Like, commander, horma, terma + 2 spores? Get more early upgrades, idk.
If you choose the battlefields, win the fight and cap afterward, it could work? Maybe take more advantage of rippers and spore mine purchases (low/ no upkeep)?
And field t2-3 units quicker, keeping upkeep low. Interesting thoughts/ possibilities/ play style as a nid. Could be non viable aswell.

[Dullahan]

There's no benefit to going with 2 gaunts. You trade away any early game advantage you may gain for no reason by doing that. You'd have to play more passively and it's not like you'd get warriors/raveners any quicker by doing it. Better to use 3 squads and take advantage of superior map control and flanking opportunities.

Max power (sm) and PhatE (eldar) seem to mostly play with commander + 2 units (early t1), made me whonder if its a viable playstyle for nids aswell.
Like, commander, horma, terma + 2 spores? Get more early upgrades, idk.
If you choose the battlefields, win the fight and cap afterward, it could work? Maybe take more advantage of rippers and spore mine purchases (low/ no upkeep)?
And field t2-3 units quicker, keeping upkeep low. Interesting thoughts/ possibilities/ play style as a nid. Could be non viable aswell.

It works with SM and Eldar because their units are stronger. I still wouldn't ever suggest it because it doesn't really benefit any economy timings. (No reason not to get 2x scout or a second guardian imo)

The one thing I learned about this game is that investing more in current tech wins games, while teching quicker rarely does so. You can get to t2 quickly but as long as you don't get to t2 several minutes slower than your opponent you're better off investing heavily in t1/t1.5 and doing more damage/gaining more map control than you are playing a light build and trying to tech.

Likewise, there's no reason to spend less requisition on units in favour of wargear. You don't get t1.5 units any quicker, and the map control/combat capability you lose is significant. Being weak in combat makes you very vulnerable to an early game gen bash which will throw your whole strategy out the window.

It only works if you're able to use your commander and 2 units to hold your own in the early game. Which is easier said than done and depends a lot on match up.

[PhatE]

To be fair that's a 3 vs 3 player against a 1 vs 1, hard to compare the two game modes. There are reasons for each but for me I find that it's far more effective and better overall to only buy banshee's and then Shurikens (see my other post regarding DA).

With Nids, whilst I suppose you could just get 1, in the long run you're sacrificing a lot for a small generator boost. It's just money sitting there not being used when it could be doing something useful like boosting your army value or putting pressure on your opponent. Unless you were going for triple ravs, double warriors or something uncommon like that.

Having the second guant also opens up a lot of different things you can do such as the endless slow or just having a superior melee force. Depends what you're going for.

[egewithin]

There are no problems about damage buff of Hormos since 10% damage pays off very well if there are enough models around. There are too many models to make the damage so even if you increase by 1%, it will effect the balance.

Also; 2 Hormo with LA pheromones

[saltychipmunk]

I have played a few more games , and uggggh un-buffed gaunts are so weak. I decided to do a 2 horma 2 terma opener and it was pretty awful.
I think the largest issue was that it opened up my line up to being extremely vulnerable to aoe for very little return on my investment.

The ig player i was playing was able to very effectively neutralize the hormas with 2 squads of flame guardsmen . this is normally a non issue for me because i used to do 2 horm terma warrior warrior/rav. but here the flamers were just evil .. especially on a lord general

I think i will be avoiding the quad gaunt opener for now.

[Tex]

quad gaunt opening is map control central. Play the peripheries with your horms. Play the mid/primary combat area of the map with your terms and hero.

[saltychipmunk]

then following that logic, 4 gaunt opening is not very useful in the congested environment that most 3v3 maps have. i guess ill just go with the quick warrior / delay with spore mines strategy.

[CSM Emperor]

spore mine spam only works against noobs.

[saltychipmunk]

um ok. glad i didnt say "spam" then