Adding (modded) Last Stand to Elite...

[Castle]

Hi Elite,


So this idea has been tumbling around in my head for awhile now: adding an improved, tweaked version of Last Stand to the mod. It makes sense upfront, since you must already have a different -dev- version of the game when you start Elite. Adding an improved, elite version of last stand to the mix could be great. This idea would take several months to complete of course.

I have found a Retribution mod that seems fairly complete here. It's the same guy who did the DOWII Last Stand "update". *update* that link is dead and I cannot locate the mod anywhere so far.

I will try it out sometime today or tonight with me Last Stand homies, see what we think. I have been revisiting Last Stand a lot in the last couple months and overall I am quite versed in the mechanics and design "under the hood" so to speak.

Has anyone else given the mod version of Last Stand for Retribution a try? If so what are your thoughts?

If the mod is acceptable and could be incorporated into the Elite install, that saves me a bunch of time. I am sure however that the creator of the mod needs to be contacted and permission asked etc etc., if the idea is desirable to the community in the first place I am happy to spearhead the contact work and logistics if need be.

Additional to any 'updating' of Last Stand, I would like to expand on the idea for an 'Elite' version of Last Stand... in such a mode you would be able to load in your multi-player skirmish heroes and work on your build order, different tactics and micro with said hero in coop with one or two other players (2 or 3 person team practice essentially). This means you would have access to a limited number of HQ units, for tactical choices depending on what wave you are facing and so on. A few resources could be placed on the map to boost team performance and survivability, if you can coordinate well enough to hold them. Enemy spawns would need to be somewhat sophisticated and perhaps even tailored to the heroes who are deployed, but with the updated AI coming in I am sure this can all be done.

I researched Cope's tools and other resources sometime ago, but got all hung up on making a map. I have some rusty but capable code skills in these hands, and SCAR code is certainly something I can handle. Seems a matter of learning Copes Toolset most of all.

If I get involved with the dev side of this, I am not making the map The map for an 'Elite' Last Stand mode would need to be twice in size to that of current Last Stand maps and still an "arena" in function. I could make the map I am sure, but that part alone will take quite a bit of time

We have lots of great maps rolling in. I will finish my map in time, but I thought I would get this discussion rolling for now; this is a much more interesting project overall. Lots of Last Stand players would no doubt come check out the mod if we got something like this going, therein growing the Elite community further

Thoughts? Ideas?

Cheers!

[Nuclear Arbitor]

sounds interesting and potentially fun, the current last stand is simply stale.

[Castle]

sounds interesting and potentially fun, the current last stand is simply stale.

Very true! Though with good micro much has changed for me ^^ I can make many build types work that did not before.

Nonetheless plenty of wargear is hardly ever usable. And the variety of what happens is so very repetitive.

[Castle]

Following up here for now: looks like the Last Stand mod by Akaiyou is dead in the water. Anyone know the guy? I have seen the name around before... I could use taking a look at the files, but I cannot find the DL anywhere. He gave up from the look of it.

tbh, it looks like he tried to do waaay too much. Most of what is there in Last Stand already works, but you need to practice and execute good micro; much of the wargear or build process is misunderstood in Last Stand.

I will try to get in contact with this Akaiyou guy who did some modding already. Until then:

my plan from here: gonna start making a mod so you can load in multi skirmish heroes to a map with no HQ, but can call in units from skirmish (from F1 menu) etc. Ima leave adding stuff, balancing and fixing LS to another time.

So this means I need to be able to spawn heroes on a map, from multiplayer deploy screen for now, with no HQ but with HQ menu access, set number of resources and AI positions need to be locked in, with random spawn and random cycles. This can work for sure.... gonna start a thread on Relic News and anywhere else that seems useful for some help.

[Lulgrim]

Most of what is there in Last Stand already works, but you need to practice and execute good micro; much of the wargear or build process is misunderstood in Last Stand.

Qué... there is practically no micro in TLS, you have 1 unit... just click on something occasionally. Spamming an ability is the most complicated form of micro it involves.

Beating it is like 70-80% about build and 20-30% about positioning on the old map. The new map doesn't have the mirror wave to block cheese builds or super difficult waves, so that one is 95% build and just speed-cheese through the entire mode.

The problem with TLS was never the gameplay but the lack of maps. You were bored to death after 2 weeks and it took them two years to add one (1!) map that added another 2 weeks of playtime. A true landmark of lameness. I suspect the mode would have probably had an adequate plater base willing to pay micro for new scenarios and heroes (very cheap to develop, 100% existing assets and some scripting) - which I assumed they were going for with The Last Standalone, but the thing just never progressed beyond a "demo" level of content.

I see no reason to mod the "arcade" gameplay itself in any direction but rather map/script new scenarios with fresh maps and possibly varying objectives, and secondarily add more heroes.

[Kvek]

A lot of players would come over to Elite because of it, and maybe they would even play multiplayer :p

[KanKrusha]

URGENT
Read this before you touch last stand
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread. ... Last-Stand

[Nuclear Arbitor]

unless one plans to go back and play the retail TLS those issues could probably be worked around. shitty though.

[Lulgrim]

Problems sound vague, basically 1 guy says his stats got fucked without further details and 1 says it's "hard to mod" without sharing any details about anything. I'm not super convinced.

[KanKrusha]

He lost his levels and his levelling is stiffed up a but (not hugely). This means all the wargear unlocks won't work properly, ever again.

And this one guy is Bloodravage. Plus gorb said same. Both incredibly experienced modders

Probably worth trying it if you have a spare copy or account so you can experiment and not mess your main account

[Castle]

Hmmm. Thanks for the link Kan.


I am not sure why this would happen, if you create a separate mod folder location and pack the thing. Also, if you can test the mod in sandbox format without an internet connection all should go okay. So far in my readings and researching, Akaiyou (who so far is the only one to have done any real work toward an LS mod) did not have such an issue... but maybe he/she did.... I have no way of knowing necessarily.

I will continue to check on this very problem, work on my map--which I can use to test a mod build or might even be the map to use for this idea--and keep gathering intel on this.

Any more info please post what you find!

Thanks a bunch!

[Castle]

I see no reason to mod the "arcade" gameplay itself in any direction but rather map/script new scenarios with fresh maps and possibly varying objectives, and secondarily add more heroes.

Yeah, I agree. Which is why I am leaning toward just making some kind of an 'Elite Last Stand, COOP mode, objective based thing' also as I think about this more.


As for the retail version of LS being a 'spam fest' where micro is concerned, yeah I mostly agree man. But you can actually do quite well if you can micro your movement, and your timing exceptionally well. Any of that is beside the point though, and since there are some risks with screwing my account if I mod LS I will likely just leave it alone and build on the objective-based coop idea. Several other players have chatted with me about what DOW2 could use more of; making a game mode where your performance is crucial to managing resources effectively in order to move on to the next stage/survive seems far more legit