Patch 2.5 (WIP)

[saltychipmunk]

the double ranger play works way better in 3v3 games than in 1v1 since you can easily get away with a 2 squad opener and place 6 gens down for the rest of your team. It works better if you have a ton of heavy infantry to shoot at of course.


the ranger suppression is not to be underestimated. being able to suppress lone squads at such a range means you can effectively disable key units or force a lone unit to be exposed since it wont be able to move away and wont be able to shoot. It is a great tool for harassing things; much better than just having the rifles like scouts have.

[Cheekie Monkie]

Problem, gen farms?

[HiveSpirit]

Is the IG Multi-laser Turret still bugging and not able to attack power nodes?

[egewithin]

Is the IG Multi-laser Turret still bugging and not able to attack power nodes?

I think that was a manual nerf to those things.

[Adeptus Noobus]

Toilailee used them in the most recent tournament to bash power with them and they were working fine.

[HiveSpirit]

Toilailee used them in the most recent tournament to bash power with them and they were working fine.

Looked like they bugged in our game.

[Dark Riku]

Neither tm/pc/ig turrets do any damage to the power nodes, this is a bug that got introduced when the nodes were not auto attacked any more.
I'm sure they will fix it whenever they find a solution to it. Feel free to help them They damage the generators just fine though.

[sebi.costa]

* Kasrkin Melta Guns upgrade removed

Why is it being removed?

[Laplace's Demon]

I agree, micro is the answer.... if you're wearing power armor. In practice, when it comes to low health light infantry, your choices are a) bleed or b) concede ground. Given how important holding ground is in Dow 2 (gens at minimum), you choose to bleed.

But, I claim no monopoly on wisdom. Please post a game where you can show how you play eldar without bleed. I will be the first to change how I play eldar if you can...

Or you can actually micro: position yourself properly into (perfect) cover, have your position covered by a shurycan, be infiltrated thanks to rangers/gates, etc
Please look up those games for yourself and adjust your play accordingly.

I've watched every game indrid ever casted on his current channel, including yours where you play eldar and bleed like slaughtered pig riku.

Even in the situation above (x2 DA, 1x shurican x1 rangers), you're camping and not using eldar mobility which you pay for in req and power, and thus fighting at less efficiency than a faction designed for attrition. And god help you if the opponent has grenade launcher disruption, jump troops (which kills those perfect shields),or detection scouts w/e. AND that's assuming you timed the infiltration drop just perfectly.

It's ok, we know you don't play elderp much any more riku Eldar bleed. There's nothing to be ashamed about. How mad would all the power armor players be if eldar wouldn't fall over when they got sneezed at? I say let eldar bleed just to keep the peace.

[Epostle]

This seems like it's going to be a good patch and will change gameplay a lot.

That's what I love about balance tweaks, it doesn't just fix the current factions, but makes all of them play slightly different

Also, it's awesome to see that things that need to be fixed are getting priority over newer content. None-the-less though, I can't wait to see what the next faction is going to be :>

[Forestradio]

Problem, gen farms?

nothing that wasn't happening already

[Atlas]

Problem, gen farms?

nothing that wasn't happening already

I can't quote this one enough. It's not like Inq couldn't wtfinstantgenbash in early t2 before. Overall, I'm still concerned with the GK vs SM matchup, so I'm kinda hoping SM has some interesting changes for that.

[CSM Emperor]

The GK rhino move to t2 from t1 and they can reinforce ?I totaly dislike that. I faced GK with rhinos at t1, even 2 rhino and had no real problem to deal with their rushes.

[Adeptus Noobus]

The GK rhino move to t2 from t1 and they can reinforce ?I totaly dislike that. I faced GK with rhinos at t1, even 2 rhino and had no real problem to deal with their rushes.

It is not a problem of having to deal with Rhinos in T1 but the synergy between Rhinos and Purgation both being in T1. If you followed GKs development you might still remember the fun of seeing a Rhino in T1 and knowing that a Purgation is inside, rushing your gen farm.

It is a balance issue and thus the decision to move the Rhino to T2 is the correct decision.

[saltychipmunk]

* Kasrkin Melta Guns upgrade removed

Why is it being removed?

If i were to hazard a guess , it is either
A to remove redundancy since storm troopers had clearly the superior av potential or
B to balance the fact that they now have heavy armor and are by extension slightly more durable than most other melta infantry.

I am thinking it is option A as it has been argued to death that armor type is not nearly as useful in late game as having a solid hp pool is. (since everyone will be bringing their big armor ignoring stuff to blows ayway)

CSM Emperor wrote:The GK rhino move to t2 from t1 and they can reinforce ?I totaly dislike that. I faced GK with rhinos at t1, even 2 rhino and had no real problem to deal with their rushes.

I hate to break it too you but, that is not much of an achievement and is exactly why they are being moved. t1 vehicles suck and the rhino in t1 really has no real purpose. too brittle as an actual transport, too low damage to be an actual threat (in t1) and rather useless in t2 because of its obvious inferiority to other transports (no reinforce , less carry capacity).

[Dark Riku]

I've watched every game indrid ever casted on his current channel, including yours where you play eldar and bleed like slaughtered pig riku.

Even in the situation above (x2 DA, 1x shurican x1 rangers), you're camping and not using eldar mobility which you pay for in req and power, and thus fighting at less efficiency than a faction designed for attrition. And god help you if the opponent has grenade launcher disruption, jump troops (which kills those perfect shields),or detection scouts w/e. AND that's assuming you timed the infiltration drop just perfectly.

It's ok, we know you don't play elderp much any more riku Eldar bleed. There's nothing to be ashamed about. How mad would all the power armor players be if eldar wouldn't fall over when they got sneezed at? I say let eldar bleed just to keep the peace.

Your stupidity and ignorance is cute. Cuz all my replays end up on Indrid'd channel, rite? Ow wait a second ...
The posts you make only suggest that you know nothing of this game and seriously need to L2P.
You make me wish I could pull people through my screen.

I can only hope that Caeltos reverts the Dire Avenger cost reduction before the patch goes live because they will be way too cost efficient.

[Deflaktor]

As an Eldar main player here are my thoughts to the Eldar changes:

* Providence health gain increased from 200 to 300
* Enhance speed decreased from 3 to 2
* Enhance duration increased from 6 to 10 seconds

Like these changes in general. Maybe I will use Enhance more often now. 6 seconds were just too short.

* Dire Avenger cost reduced from 300 to 270

Concerned about this change. I feel like at 300 they are too costly. At 270 too cheap. 290 req would sound like a nice price to me. If its gonna be 270, the reinforce cost should stay at 30.

* Fire Dragon armor changed from infantry_fire_resist to heavy_infantry
* Fire Dragon 'passive' aura no longer reduces damage taken, but still grants weapon_knockback immunity. (ability_knockback removed)

I like them being nerfed but the change to heavy_infantry armor will make them just as vulnerable to plasma devs as dark reapers are. I already see it coming, fire dragons getting one-shotted by a plasma dev.

* Dark Reaper health increased from 175 to 200
* Dark Reaper reload duration reduced from 3-3 to 2-2
* Dark Reaper 'Tempest Barrage' ability removed
* Dark Reaper Exarch no longer grants additional +10% health to the squad
* Dark Reaper Exarch now adds +10 sight range to the squad. (If the Exarch dies, this bonus is lost. This is a fail-safe against potential bug so multiple exarch bought on the squad doesn't add several +sight range to the squad)

Very good changes to the Dark Reapers. The sight range gives them a completely different role I always wondered where they would fit in the Eldar roster. Having them now alongside a d-cannon might be a good synergy. Cant wait to try that out.
But I think the Exarch should be cheaper. Quite hefty to pay 85/25 for a model which dies easily. Maybe 65/20 would be more suitable? We will see

[Paradise Lost]

I like them being nerfed but the change to heavy_infantry armor will make them just as vulnerable to plasma devs as dark reapers are. I already see it coming, fire dragons getting one-shotted by a plasma dev.

A lot of squads get one-shot by plasma devs. I don't see the problem.

But I think the Exarch should be cheaper. Quite hefty to pay 85/25 for a model which dies easily. Maybe 65/20 would be more suitable? We will see

That may be too cheap for a model that turns the squad into a plasma sniper unit. How about 65/25?

[Caeltos]

Updated OP with some Space Marine changes.

[Kvn]

* Force Commander Thunderhammer special no longer tracks an infinite distance. (tracks a distance of maximum 12)

Tears of joy

[Tengu]

>* Force Commander Thunderhammer special no longer tracks an infinite distance. (tracks a distance of maximum 12)
THANK GOD!

[Skyward Sorceror]

Contain yourself Autarch! Fury Hell (I am so coining that), refrain from turning into a cat and praying to your Xeno gods! But I shall look forward to the next update, I know not how it shall affect my game, but I trust the Elite mod Team. TOOOO INFINITY AND BEYOOOND!!!!

[Deflaktor]

A lot of squads get one-shot by plasma devs. I don't see the problem.

I don't know any t2 unit which gets one shotted by another t2 unit

[Asmon]

Well you don't know them. Still they exist, for a lot of Eldar and IG T2 units do.

[MaxPower]

Space Marines
* Techmarine Venerable Dreadnought cost increased from 600/50/350 to 600/100/350

Call me stupid, but the Vendread costs 600/50/300 right now. So do we have to pay 50 red more as well?

I mean I don't get the Vendread all that often, because its not as good as terminators (cant cap, doesnt have any ranged options), but it was cheaper both in power, req and red, but if you up the power and the red I'll prolly never ever get a Vendread again. Because the impact it has in t3 doesnt justify a price that is so close to Terminators, imho.

On another note, y does the Lord General have a LR call in that doesn't cost any power? I mean the impact of LR is immense and not having to pay power at all is kinda weird.

[Forestradio]

A lot of squads get one-shot by plasma devs. I don't see the problem.

I don't know any t2 unit which gets one shotted by another t2 unit

[Adeptus Noobus]

Space Marines
* Techmarine Venerable Dreadnought cost increased from 600/50/350 to 600/100/350

Call me stupid, but the Vendread costs 600/50/300 right now. So do we have to pay 50 red more as well?

I mean I don't get the Vendread all that often, because its not as good as terminators (cant cap, doesnt have any ranged options), but it was cheaper both in power, req and red, but if you up the power and the red I prolly will never ever get a Vendread again. Because the impact it has in t3 doesnt justify a price that is so close to Terminators, imho.

The Venerable Dreadnought is still a very viable option, even at that price. Do not forget that this variant will be dropped right into combat. It has 1750 hp right from the start and will defeat e.g. a Carnifex 1on1 most of the times. It can be further upgraded with the Dark Age of Technology to give the following benefits to itself and the rest of your army:

Increases health by 300 and improves the inspiration allies receive from kills made by the Dreadnought. Inspiration now increases damage by 35% and reduces received suppression by 30% for 20 seconds.

It is always situational but it still has merit to it.

[Adeptus Noobus]

A lot of squads get one-shot by plasma devs. I don't see the problem.

In addition to that, the LC will also one-shot Shoota Nobz, DA + Banshee + Warp Spiders + Dark Reapers - Exarch, you get the picture

@Forestradio If my calculations are correct, the Vindicare Assassin does 513 dmg with Mindblades and Target Acquired. Is that right?

[saltychipmunk]

A lot of squads get one-shot by plasma devs. I don't see the problem.

I don't know any t2 unit which gets one shotted by another t2 unit

Wait wait, where the hell is the ravener frenzy global on that thrope . the frenzy thrope guardsman popper is legendary, how can no one have that listed yet?

[Adeptus Noobus]

Guardsmen are not T2 units