Patch 2.5 (WIP)

[Deflaktor]

Ok fine, you guys convinced me

I'm looking forward to trying out the new fire dragons =)

[Forestradio]

@Forestradio If my calculations are correct, the Vindicare Assassin does 513 dmg with Mindblades and Target Acquired. Is that right?

no it's not right run the numbers again

@fire dragons the concern about plasma/inferno/psychic_pvp doing terrible terrible damage is valid, although i'd be more concerned about things like zoanthrope shots or sustained damage weapons (plasma rifle, tcsm bolters) than artillery...

[Adeptus Noobus]

@Forestradio If my calculations are correct, the Vindicare Assassin does 513 dmg with Mindblades and Target Acquired. Is that right?

no it's not right run the numbers again

Buffs are obviously multiplicative and not additive. Silly me

[saltychipmunk]

Guardsmen are not T2 units

well, guardsmen are what they are famous for murdering , but i am sure we can get some storm trooper / warpspider murder in

maybe with a few levels?

[HiveSpirit]

LRR, the healing is to much, "healed for 1% of their maximum health every second", please lower it to 0,5. LRR got way to many options for its price.
Without problem it could cost 800r/200p.

[saltychipmunk]

well, because in some cases (especially the tm) the ven dread has more value than those terminators since he is a hero that is already well equipped to support vehicles.

And a ven drop make a way bigger splash than terminators ever will.

[Slaaneshi Cacophony]

For clarification on the Inquisitor's buff...

When it says 'strike', does it mean the target will be revealed for 30 seconds if the Inquisitor melees an infiltrated squad while she has the Servo Skull wargear, or will the target squad be revealed for 30 seconds if detected by the Auspex Scan?

[Asmon]

First option would be my guess.

On a side note: are we coming back to first vanilla LRR with OP supressing side flamers?

[HiveSpirit]

First option would be my guess.

On a side note: are we coming back to first vanilla LRR with OP supressing side flamers?

I dont remember those times but... Omg... Doesnt LRR have enough?
Get a cupple of long range units, sit back at your lovley, not even 800r/200p super unit, reinforce, get healed, supress immune, scouts repair, frag assault every 30s (or suppress) anyone who gets close..
(omg dat resize function..)
With these Poster boys
https://youtu.be/_nVGZjhkRTg?t=1m40s

[Adeptus Noobus]

+

What was that you were saying about healing auras and ranged damage reduction and reinforcements? Zoanthrope healing aura also stacks iirc...

[HiveSpirit]

+

What was that you were saying about healing auras and ranged damage reduction and reinforcements? Zoanthrope healing aura also stacks iirc...

From recent field testing iirc zoens heal doesn not stack, pretty sure at it. It only works on tyranids. The Rbf file says esclusive true.

Brood nest is just 2,5hp/s, the brood nest isnt a retreat point and cannot move. BN doesnt work on Carnifexes or swarmlord i think, Rbf file seem to confirm that.

[Wise Windu]

From recent field testing iirc zoens heal doesn not stack, pretty sure at it. It only works on tyranids. The Rbf file says esclusive true.

Yup

BN doesnt work on Carnifexes or swarmlord i think, Rbf file seem to confirm that.

Yup

[Cyris]

My theory on the Chaos patch notes:

* Chaos Terminator rotation speed reduced from 600 to 300

[Laplace's Demon]

My theory on the Chaos patch notes:

* Chaos Terminator rotation speed reduced from 600 to 300

*doombolts cool down increased from 10 to 15

[Caeltos]

My theory on the Chaos patch notes:

* Chaos Terminator rotation speed reduced from 600 to 300

We have a winrar.

[Forestradio]

We have a winrar.

[Bahamut]

i hate those birds.. tucans are fucking aweful at close sight, and they smell like horse shit

I'm not liking the changes to the LRR, it looks just like a shitty version of the LRC now

[KanKrusha]

Agreed, Tucans are OP and bring too much to the table for their price. Their ability causes too much damage, especially for a unit that is immune to knockback. Their only saving grace is that they are relatively slow so you can catch them With melee.The only way I can see Tucans being balanced was if they couldn't cap

[Crewfinity]

With the last patch giving speed increases to both SM and chaos predators, I think looted tanks could use a little love.
They used to have the unique traits of being the fastest tanks at speed 7.25, while predators were 6.5, and they had high spike damage so they could move up, take a shot, then move back some out of range.

now that the predators are speed 7.25 (making nobz are even worse in these matchups) i think the looted tank could get a speed buff to 7.5. orks have a tough time countering other tanks in T3 and having the speed advantage on their looted tank really helped out.

thoughts anyone?

[Cyris]

Looted tanks are so absurdly cheap (400/100) but they are fragile and the weakest battle tank. They do have the red costing cannon shot, but sluggas are a hard repair unit to utilize. ::shrugs::

[HiveSpirit]

Nerf preds speed

[DandyFrontline]

Nerf preds speed

Argument

[Dark Riku]

Looted tank also costs less than it's counterparts though and comes with that "Boomgun" ability.

[Crewfinity]

That's certainly true, but chaos pred has marks and SM pred has both armor and the lascannons upgrades to give them their unique feel. Its not a huge deal but I thought it was cool that the predators were medium speed, Russ was slow, and prism and looted were faster. Prism and Russ both have large upsides with their range and durability respectively so I don't think they need any changes, but by making the predators equal to looted tank speed it feels a bit like the looted tank lost a bit of its uniqueness. I think a .25 speed increase could give that back by making it once again the fastest tank, while being a small enough buff that it doesn't affect performance too much.

Not a huge deal or anything but I always like to see more variation between units

[HiveSpirit]

Predators main gun has 35,% more dmg.

Boomgun costs red, its not a "natural ability" with just cooldown, but has a global cost), nonetheless its another option. That option is infantry focus. Is it up to 200 explosive damage or 200 E dmg per model?

The synergy between higher speed and less time between the shots could benefit the predator in an unintended way. It would probably be more intense micro, but give an advantage in more intense field presence. At the same time it could give your opponent more windows to fire at the pred.

LootaT has a greater aoe radius of 7 compare to Sm pred with 3. Loota also has 0.1 higher damage at medium, long and distant range. This further points at loota beeing more infantry orientated.

Predater excels at anti vehical potential and cannot be knocked back, its more reliable AV dmg.

Is it weapon knockback on preds and loota tank shots?
---------------------
So.. LootaT have one more option vs infantry, the ability which has a per use cost to it, and is more inclined to AI, but lacks the stronger long time/ over time AI and got lower AV potential, but has the high speed. LootaT is a great AI tank.

Predator is more flexible, has better over time/ long lasting AI and great AV potential, and can chase down the LootaT with its current speed. Predator is currently has great AI and AV, it can kite infantry and chase tanks, has high AI, AV and speed. Predator currently have it all.

LemanR has lower speed, costs 50-100 req more but 5-15 less power. It has ~28% lower dmg output (vanilla), but Vanquisher Cannon has longer range potential/ option and ~9-34% more damage than vanilla pred (depends on range). Lascannon pred has 55 AV dps at range 44, Vanquisher Leman 35 at range 55 and 43 av dps at range 38, predator still has greater damage and speed. Pred will be able to catch Leman and has the potential to keep it out of the leman lascannon range. LemanR also has the same pop requirement of 18 as pred. They also have the same upkeep.

Pred also excels in most areas vs eldar FireP, pred is faster, isnt as flexible but has higher damage and is more accurate vs large targets. More hp.

VS csm pred, khorn pred has slightly less AV potential as it doesnt have the extra armor upgrade posibility, though it has two options to excel at AI, that probably makes it even.

Vs nids, same pop req as vanilla fex which also costs 150r/25p more and is significantly slower (2,75 slower). 5 seconds faster production speed and 11,5 less upkeep. Fex has more hp as its slower, to get on par with preds AV nids have to pay 200r/45p more. FexVC has 47 in range (3 more than pred) but also a minimum range of 8. The fex would need to rely on other units to make use of the venom canons range 47 as fex only has the sight radius of 38. This technically gives the pred the upper hand in a 1on1 situation as pred can make use of range 40 (its sight radius), while fex would be capped at 38.
---------------------------
Again, so.. Pred has:
*Solid high AI, not the highest AI of them all but is in the top, not the biggest radius or the most AI options.
*About top AV, top dmg but 3rd place range. Nr1 is Vanquisher att 55 but with lower dmg, nr2 FexVC of 47 with ~9% less dmg but higher accuracy on the move, predator 3rd place, long range, high dps, no minimum range.
*Top speed, can chase down Fex (4,5), LemanR (6) and FireP (6.75). Could, if the curicomstances are right and your already within range (not necessarily), chase down LootaT and csm Pred. Vs Loota pred could have 50hp more, vs csm AV pred the alternative to have 200 more hp.

In my noobish opinion i would suggest to nerf csm pred down to a speed of 7 and SM pred to 6.75.
Because sm pred excels in most areas and situations (dmg, range, speed, hp, costs) compared to other factions equivalents.
Csm pred because it has more options but lesser ranged AI/AV durability.

[Asmon]

There is no kb on tank shots, except from Prism obviously.

[egewithin]

Can we just say Predator is better than Lootad Tank, and move on. Because if we try to make things equal, we may start to balance LemanR and Pred. Just agree that Leman > Pred > Lootad.

[Crewfinity]

What have I started...

I just want tha red onez to go fasta

[Dark Riku]

Predators main gun has 35,% more dmg.

No, it's the opposite way around. The predator does less damage per shot than the looted tank does. You were trying to talk about DPS and then you are still wrong.
The looted tank's DPS+35% is indeed the predator's DPS. The actual difference in DPS is 26,4% though.

Loota also has 0.1 higher damage at medium, long and distant range.

They both do 100% of their damage at all ranges.

Predater excels at anti vehical potential and cannot be knocked back, its more reliable AV dmg.

Why would the predator excel at AV? I thought the consensus before was that higher burst damage was better than sustained damage when it comes to AV?
Neither tank can be knocked back...

..., and can chase down the LootaT with its current speed. ...

The predator and Looted tank both have the same speed. They can both chase each other when in range.

LemanR has lower speed, costs 50-100 req more but 5-15 less power....

What are you talking about here? A Leman Russ costs 125 power, the same as a predator. I'm not even going to bother to check your maths on this one.
And yes the LR has lower speed than the other tanks, other tanks don't have the ridiculous good trait of having a 35% damage reduction against all sources.

Pred also excels in most areas vs eldar FireP, pred is faster, isnt as flexible but has higher damage and is more accurate vs large targets. More hp.

No it doesn't, the Fire prism's anti infantry capabilities are way better thanks to the knockback modus.
The Fire Prism also has way longer range than the other tanks, don't expect the prism to win in a close by fire fight...

I'm also not going to check your conclusion numbers as you seem to confuse things with each other.
And have to disagree on your end conclusion since you're basing yourself on faulty information.

[HiveSpirit]

Ah well, was worth a shot atleast ^^
Just give nids fex some more love..