wa1243agh wrote:My first thought on the grey knights in the interceptors. I don't like the suppressing factor they could have if you could fire for 7 seconds and not be interrupted (irony). But I would like something similar to it. If instead they could maybe slow down the enemy like the bile spewer and lower the weapon fire rate maybe by like 25% that would be similar to suppression but could be more offensive and still have a defensive feel like other suppression squads. Lower the movement by maybe 3 or so. Would leave units closing in vulnerable for a while. Think about that for a bit a tell me if it sound ok or bad and give me your opinions on that.
I take it you mean purgation? I have to say thank god they now do actual courage damage. However, frequently/mostly by the time you have a squad suppressed (usually a melee squad running in), the melee squad is pretty much on top of the purgation squad meaning you need to move it away during which time the unit becomes un-suppressed. Part of my problem with the unit is that the range is too short. I would be ok with the slowing movement of hit units and increasing its area of affect slightly (slow could be op, area of affect/range is probably needed). I also feel that the unit doesn't scale well (wait for it), UNLESS you get psycannons, but then you lose the suppression, which at times I would like to keep. But by t2, the range on the flamers is just way to short that this is almost a death sentence.
wa1243agh wrote:Next still has to do with interceptors. I would like to take away their psycannon upgrade and replace it with a lascannon. And instead of the lascannon snaring it disables or lowers weapon the weapon cool down of the targeted vehicle. The two side members WOULD have pyscannons but of course that does less damage then what they do already. Whenever I face GK i feel that a vehicle spells the end for them (until t3) and some more hard AV might do it. Or this is how i feel.
Here do you mean strike squad? Because Interceptors have an incinerator wargear option not a psycannon. I disagree, this would make it too easy to counter vehicles due to the fact that at least 1 strike squad is mandatory in t1 pretty much. I think GK still suffer in the AV deptarment, but this is not the squad to address that problem. On the topic of strike squad, they are absolutely amazing in t1. I LOVE THEM. They're very good at what they do. However. Come t2, there is significantly more plasma dmg and more power melee on the field which makes life difficult for them as a melee squad. And the psycannon option for the squad just does not deal enough ranged damaged I feel. What I would like to see is an upgrade option allowing for them to lose all melee prowess and essentially become regular tactical marines with bolters and without the various wargear options (missile launcher, plasma gun, flamer) and without the And They Shall Know No Fear ability. I would be ok with them losing access to the flamer and the psycannon this way. Would this be too much as a t1 upgrade? This would allow them and the GK roster in general to become more flexible. They would not however, have the benefits against H/SH infantry armor, vehicles and swarmy units/gens. If implemented, I would hope it to be a cheap mostly req upgrade. atm, 25 power for psycannons just feels like too much in order to keep them only somewhat relevant.
wa1243agh wrote: Lower melee skill by like 5 and increase their ranged output a bit. Maybe an artillery unit too since i cant remember if they have one other then grenades from troopers. Something similar to plasma devs if there is nothing out there.
I would prefer them not lost their melee skill, this is the only thing that lets them go toe to toe with other dedicated melee squads in t1 with support (An area GK somewhat struggle with). IMO the trade off would not be worth it. I think that converting them to a pure ranged unit is a better alternative. In this vein, I do agree that GK lack ranged options. In t1 for range, you can go SS or IS for ranged damage units ( I am not counting purgation squads as damage dealers). And both feel lackluster in that role. IS bleed too much, requiring too many upgrades, making them too expensive for this role. You can go 3x or 4x IS, but that build is not very diverse and is easily countered by set-ups and jump troops.
I believe it was Torpid who said this (correct me if I am wrong), but GK feel like they have only 2 paths through the tech levels, melee or ranged. And both seem somewhat exclusive. If you go range, you have to get at least 2x purgation and then psycannons later on. Otherwise you go with some at least 1 strike squad and then interceptors. And then purifiers and/or the termy librarian. Leading up to probably termies. Another dedicated ranged squad would help this gap, and could do well in t2.
On that note, I would like to discuss the terminator librarian. Personally I think that smite does too little damage, Might of Titan is too situational (only works with melee builds) and infiltrate really only supports some things well and not others. It/he doesn't have anything to offer ranged builds essentially. Though it(infiltrate) can be nasty on a melee unit or a dred. Purge, though, Purge is fantastic, and if not for the lack of GK AV might be over-performing. I also think that many players forget he has this ability, and I would like to see, if possible, a better indicator of when purge is affecting a unit. I frequently can't tell if it's on a unit even though I'm the one who put it there. I think he needs another ability if he is to be kept as he is, but I'm not sure as to what that ability should be. Perhaps, veil of time, but make it not stack with We Are The Hammer speed buff? Or something to help ranged squads. My biggest gripe overall with him though, is that he IS SO FREAKING SLOW. He is meant to be a support unit, getting him for his melee prowess is not really the point (purifiers would be better). He is rarely quick enough to be anywhere you need him to be in an engagement. I would prefer him to do less damage and have him as a normal libby like vanilla SM rather than have him as a termy variant and be so incredibly slow. Atm he can't really do his job as a support unit.
There are only 2 other things and a minor nitpick I have to say about GK. As was said, GK utterly suck in terms of AV still. Possibly give purgation a lascannon upgrade? Make it so that they lose clear sight or that the slow does not work with clear sight on. Atm the moment the best option is to pray for an ally to help, or get a dred, and at 120 power that is way to expensive for an AV option. (The dred is overall awesome, and very good, but it does not firmly fill the role of AV due to its expensive nature, and shorter range).
The other area where GK lack is Anti-blob/disruption. Currently for Anti-blob damage, you have Psychic Field, Smite, Hellfury, Nemesis Vortex?, IS GL, pdev dred, and the LR. Psychic field is fantastic (Though damaging your own units is unnecessary I think, as it can be easily dodge). Smite, as I said is not a useful option. Hellfury costs a decent chunk of red, and doesn't do all that much damage unless they stay in it like a fool. It's easy to move out of. Nemesis Vortex is good. If possible I wish it could be given a unit card and a hotkey, because finding the damn thing in a middle of a large battle and micro-ing it to follow a blob is very very tough while everything is going on. The thing is not very selectable. If that gets fixed, then this ability would be fantastic. IS GL are very good, but they bleed a lot and are much less useful come t2/t3. pdev dred is fantastic, but it's also close to what ~150 power to get that out on the field? That is way to much for just an anti-blob. Plus it's not very conducive to having a melee oriented build (This ties into the lack of flexibility of GK range options). Lastly, the landraider is very good, but it doesn't come out till t3 and is very expensive. An artillery unit in t2 would fill a gap in the roster well. Even if it is just a pdev.
In terms of just disruption there is only Bro Cap's hammer, IS GL, IS plasma guns, and Dred fist. The Disruption on the hammer is great, but I would like to see the damage of the ability go up. It barely does anything now. I would be more than willing to see it take a base damage decrease if that was found neccisary. Slightly random, what is his special attack with the hammer? I can't recall it, funny. IS GL are fine....if they actually worked. I realize it's a bug, but the lack of disruption early hurts right now. IS plasma guns are pretty good apart from the bugs with energy and turning off and whatnot. They only hit two models though. Not so great with disrupting a melee squad but solid otherwise. They knockdown animation for units looks kinda comical though. Not sure if that would be easy to fix. Dred fist is very good. Just expensive again for what it offers when you just need disruption.
Like what has been said an artillery unit would fulfill these rolls pretty well.
Lastly the minor nitpick. The squad leaders for GK always seem to die. ALways. I don't know if this is just me, but losing the Interceptor, Strike squad and Purifier leader happens too often I think, and in the case of the interceptor and Purifier, you lose massive amounts of capability/just plain usefulness without them. Interceptors in particular are kinda rubbish late/post t2 without their leader.
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Too lazy to retype so I'll copy paste what I was going to say: