Slugga boys and their OP leader

[Sub_Zero]

So here are quick points for you to consider why he is OP:

1) Statistical difference. The only squad that has a leader who is better than ordinary models both in terms of health and damage output more than 2 times (do the math yourself or wait till I get to the PC I made a comparative table on and share the data with you), the difference is just ridiculous, such a cheap squad shouldn't get such a badass leader.

2) Design. He combines great health, great damage and gives a great ability. No other leader in the game that combines it all.
-He is way too tanky. He has 385 health, Codex says it is 350. IT IS WRONG! Check in game yourself. Moreover, he benefits from the upgrade. Becomes even more tanky. And even more ridiculosuly tanky with levels. He also gives ordinary models +15 HP buff. Why? It is so wrong!
-His weapon does almost the same damage as a single terminator with lightning claws does. It is super high and it becomes a nightmare with levels. And he is an addition to an already very damaging squad.

3) The support independent from your hero choice. No other unit in the game can receive so much support just from the roster without any hero
-Waaagh ability
-Banners slugga boys can build
-Painboy that can heal them and perform a surgery on them to make them even more nuts in dealing damage (+15% bonus to melee attacks in the next patch), on top of that he grants them an ability to cause damage and disrupt at the cost of one model
-Weirdboy turns them into a jump unit or just greatly boosts their speed and resistance to damage and in general has a pretty strong anti-melee ability (vomit)

All these facts are sufficient enough to understand that this leader is broken.

In order to balance him you have to make up your mind regarding his role. Is he to make the squad the baddest slashers out there? Is he to make them really tough? It cannot be both. Right now it is both.

I can see an upgrade that would boost something of that if we are to change him. But all the benefits coming from just 75/25 are completely unfair.

The radical solution is to change his health to 300 HP, melee damage to 50 power melee DPS and take away that 15HP bonus he provides for his boys. Now we don't have that ridiculous damage that becomes with levels even more ridiculous. His health is in check now, he can be killed now.

Or there is a solution to divide the strengths into different purchases. Introduce a new upgrade - hard boys. It gives the nob 85 health, 15 health to boys and the ability swap em. Its cost should be about 50/15. So now we have all the benefits the nob provides for 75/25 + 50/20.

Slugga boys have nice balance in T1. They are a fragile unit with no control ability. But that is compensated by their high damage. They also benefit greatly from the cheap upgrade. It boosts their health, gives them a new role (anti-garrison, genbash and all this stuff) and makes them more lethal to heavy infantry. Mind you, they are a cheap unit worth of 270 req. And then suddenly in T2 they become ultimate rapists. That cheap 270 req squad gains just about everything for just 75/25. It gains great health, it gains ludicrous damage that the nob delivers in one swing and it gains an ability to remove all their counters - ranged units. Now you can't beat them in melee, now you can't properly damage them on approach, you can't hide from them in buidlings and you can only suppress them (weirdboy counters it with ease). Too much just for a 270 req squad, isn't it?

If you disagree then start by proving wrong my 1, 2, 3 points. Then we will talk. I am not interested in your opinion. Opinion is nothing, it is subjective. Making my points I based them on facts. To me those facts are undeniable and testify that a leader is completely broken.

[Adeptus Noobus]

I am not interested in your opinion. Opinion is nothing, it is subjective. Making my points I based them on facts. To me those facts are undeniable and testify that a leader is completely broken.

THAT is just your opinion, mate.

1. Sluggas have melee skill 60. The Nob leader is the only one with melee skill 70 (this is key knowledge to effectively deal with them)
2. Burnas boost the hp of the entire squad by 20%. Maybe that is where the hp discrepancy comes from (guessing here, I did not do the math)
3. While the Nob leader has a really high dmg power melee attack, it is slower than the LC-Termis and he can be knocked back, suppressed etc.

Sluggas do not become "ultimate rapists" come T2. I'll list just a few reasons per race why I believe this be true.

Space Marines


Chaos Space Marines

Just everything the PC has is a slap to a Sluggas face. Chaos in general is bad news for Orks.

Eldar

Eldar have so many high damage sources in combination with control abilities that I do not want to list them all here.

Tyranids

Lictor Alpha Barbed Strangler Warriors

Imperial Guard

I do not know of anything the Lord General can contribute to combat Sluggas more efficiently. Maybe the Grenade Launcher. The Lord Commissar with "Inspire Terror" is a nightmare for squad leaders as he deals 300 dmg to them (if targeted correctly) and reduces the squads damage by 50%! The Inquisitor is just a counter to them with almost the entirety of her wargear.

Grey Knights
this guy can one-shot Nob leaders for fun btw


I am quite sure I have not listed every option for each race but these were the ones I felt like putting out there. Sluggas are susceptible to all the mechanics that are there to control melee units. I have not even listed transport vehicles like the Razorback or Falcon wich are just fantastic against them and there is nothing Sluggas can do on their own against them. Let's not even talk about melee walkers
The key to beating Sluggas is controlling them with melee counters. If they have closed in, another option to actually win a melee fight against them is controlling the Nob leader. If he is stunned, knocked back, sniped, anything that keeps him from taking part in the fight, you will quite handily win the engagement.

TL:DR the Nob leader is strong but not OP. OP would mean that there are no effective counters out there to this unit+leader which I have just shown to be wrong.

The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability—that is, whether it can be demonstrated to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement (by experiments or other means).

[stealth]

it seems all you do is moan about balance hydra maybe if you learn to play better you would not complain about things that are not broken (unless its FD )

[DandyFrontline]

Oh yea? And what about Heretics AC? Got almost 4 times more HP then regular tic and 2 times more DPS, increase tics HP by 20% and can be purchased on t1? Also - Heavy Armor. Is it make him OP? No, because without AC tics are garbage. Same for sluggas. In DoW2 some units got officer but it's an optional upgrade because they do well even without it (like tacticals and some other range units) and some units, as i said before, are just bleeding garbage without their leader. Mostly it's melee units like Sluggas, Tics, Ogryns etc.

[Forestradio]

No other unit in the game can receive so much support just from the roster without any hero

genuinely curious on how you arrived at this conclusion

[Adeptus Noobus]

No other unit in the game can receive so much support just from the roster without any hero

genuinely curious on how you arrived at this conclusion

Also, this guy comes to mind

[Wise Windu]

He has 385 health, Codex says it is 350. IT IS WRONG!

It isn't wrong. But if you find other things you think are incorrect in the Codex, post them here: https://www.dawnofwar.info/forum/viewto ... ?f=4&t=670

The reason it appears to be 385 is that when the nob is upgraded, the whole squad gets a 10% hp increase, the nob included. You said it yourself as well, I think.

[CSM Emperor]

i dont think slugga leader is OP, you arent playing well thats why you find him OP.