Eavy armor, bio plasma, mycetic spores, painboy

[Mathis]

I think we can all agree that there is some wargear and globals that no one ever really uses. I think some of them simply hasn't received an update ever since dow2 was released. So it is time that they deserve some attention.

Warboss - 'Eavy armor: This thing is t3 and cost 200/60. It is really only marginally better than spiky armor, which is t1 and it costs literally twice as much. No one really ever buys because no one wants to wait for t3 before equipping the warboss with an armor. And if you already have spiky armor, 'eavy armor becomes only a slight buff at a huge cost. I'm not quite sure how to change this, but the cost should at the least be decreased. And maybe give it an ability which makes him immune to supression or knockback.

Hive Tyrant - Bio Plasma: The cast animation is really long and the damage is not even that good. It does the same damage as a shot from the weebo. I think it would be better if it got moved to t2 and had its damage increased. The hive tyrant already has two other t1 accessories.

Mycetic Spores (ravener alpha global): A t2 global where you pay 400 req and 175 red for getting a t1 squad that normally costs 350/40. Make it a lot cheaper or move it to t1 and reduce the red cost to 100.

The next two items is just some stuff that bugs me.

Knob - Knife: He has no special attack with the knife. It has always been like this. But shouldn't he had a special attack like all other melee heroes?

Painboy: Of all the melee units in the entire game, he is the only one without melee resistance. Is there a reason for this? Because it makes him extremely hard to keep alive.

[Asmon]

'Eavy armor is great, like fucking great. It basically turns your Klaw WB into a better dreadnought. You're clearly mistaken when you compare it to spiky armor. Players just don't think and retreat their hero judging by the proportion of the health-bar, whereas the remaining tiny bit you see on your levelled WB still counts for 500 hp.

KN knife plays its role quite fine. We could add a special assuming someone can do animations, as long as it's not a very good one.

Painboy with no melee resistance? Well if that's right he should get it. Perhaps only in T2.

[Dark Riku]

K-nob knife not being purchased?! WHAT?!
The knife is amazing with the trippa shot and is only 20 power! If anything it needs to go up to 25 power!

[GuruSkippy]

Painboy: Of all the melee units in the entire game, he is the only one without melee resistance. Is there a reason for this? Because it makes him extremely hard to keep alive.

wait, what ???
no melee resistance ?
... everything becomes clearer now ...

about the knob knife, I think it's fine : no special, but it gives +11 MS to the knob player, so he won't be specialed.
I'm not using it very often, but when I do, knob is a murder machine

[Mathis]

K-nob knife not being purchased?! WHAT?!
The knife is amazing with the trippa shot and is only 20 power! If anything it needs to go up to 25 power!

Sorry. I didn't mean that no one ever uses the knob knife. I only mentioned the knife because it doesn't have a special attack

[Torpid]

I agree on the 'eavy armour. I'm not sure what Asmon is on about really. You can't argue that just because some people are unfamiliar with it and therefore lose their judgment of when the WB will die when looking at his health bar that it is good. Spiky armour really is just as confusing because with that you have to factor in him having 4.5hp/s regen rather than 1hp/s... Honestly, the warboss most of the time does not need as much max health as the 'eavy armour gives him, like, he's either gonna get focused down or he isn't. If spiky armour isn't enough for him to survive the focus down there are few occasions when 'eavy armour is. Yet in all those occasions when it is enough and so he gets hurt a bit but not forced off and you win the engagement that quadruple hp regen from spiky armour is sooooooo much better. Because you start the next engagement with so much more hp even though you start with more hp with 'eavy armour. And spiky is cheaper. And it's T1 and let's be real, you probably already had it in T1 anyway.

Both of the other armours of the WB are pretty terrible in comparison to spiky. Tbh, I'd nerf spiky to 2.5hp/s but I still don't think that addresses the issue of 'eavy armour being too damn expensive for what it does. It sooooo isn't worth 60 power, at all. Ork t3 is actually pretty damn power intensive with gitz/nob upgrades, their vehicles and constantly replacing the kommando nob leader!

I say at the very least give it a cost reduction to 40 power. Or as Mathis says give it an ability, perhaps make it make him kb immune for a slight nerf to the hp increase, that would really set it out as something different from the other armours. It's very boring and simple just giving him a straight hp buff. At this point in the game the warboss is going to already be countered or he is going to be running amok, again, why you would already have invested in spiky armour in him... So just giving him more hp doesn't solve the problem, but it wastes 60 power...

[Torpid]

Hive Tyrant - Bio Plasma: The cast animation is really long and the damage is not even that good. It does the same damage as a shot from the weebo. I think it would be better if it got moved to t2 and had its damage increased. The hive tyrant already has two other t1 accessories.

Mycetic Spores (ravener alpha global): A t2 global where you pay 400 req and 175 red for getting a t1 squad that normally costs 350/40. Make it a lot cheaper or move it to t1 and reduce the red cost to 100.

I don't know how to solve the Bio Plasma being sucky. I am thinking though why not make it so that it does act liek the weirdboy. Make your hive tyrant into a weirdboy, make it a weapon instead of an accessory and make it work like the toggle-weapon thing on interceptors. Reduce its damage back to what it was before the last buff?

This is crazy speak I know. A Hive Tyrant sitting there shooting bio-plasmas out constantly at stuff from the backlines with improved synapse and genes + two zoans next to him. Eh, I just feel like something crazy like that is the only way to make this thing useful because it is design-wise just stupid atm.

Actually, maybe it could do a DOT AOE after it lands, you know, like vials or burna bombs but not as high damage? Or perhaps it could just slow infantry for a few seconds in the area after it lands? Give it some tactical utility. Because kb and a little splash damage is just not worth it really...

I would be very hesitant to buff Mycetic spores though tbh. The RA can do some real work with dual ravs in t1. Like, buff it sure, but, not making it T1. I don't like that. That sounds very scary to me. Raveners in T1 are fucking brilliant atm. The red cost could get a reduction though. The reinforcement from it is never as good on tyranids as it is with SM for the drop pod because niddy units are so much cheaper to reinforce even if you fuck up an engagement and lose ravs/wars and not just gaunts...

KN knife is fine. It intentionally doesn't have a special which justifies it having 70 motherfucking dps!!! That's on a hero that starts out as ranged, gets stuns and can infiltrate. It's clearly designed for high dps counter-initiation. And hunting down ranged squads. As well as putting hurt on heroes that are not focusing on the KN and low model squads. It's fine.

Give painboy melee resist with his T2 upgrade, yeah. In T1 it is pretty hard for melee to focus him down tbf because he's meant to have sluggas nearby at all times and those burnas sluggas should kill anything that tries to focus him down in melee quick-time.

[Blood Dragon]

I'm not quite sure how to change this, but the cost should at the least be decreased. And maybe give it an ability which makes him immune to supression or knockback.

One of the most stupidest things i ever read on this forum

[Torpid]

One of the most stupidest things i ever read on this forum

Very constructive post.

Which incidentally was one of the most pointless posts I've read on this forum.

[PhatE]

...

One of the most stupidest things i ever read on this forum

Contrary to what you may think, it's not as bad an idea as you make it out to be.

I myself can agree with the topic title regarding 'eavy Armour. Not that I really play Orks frequently anymore it's still an ongoing issue, although not a serious one for the Warboss.

It would be nice if it came with something rather than just an HP boost. It's debatable whether it's worth the cost but in terms of the Warboss already having an armour or using that money for other things like any other T3 option then it's not really worth getting at the current stage. It's been discussed before that 'Eavy Armour should make him, you know, 'Eavy. Meaning that he'd be immune to some form of KB. Something that I'd be in favour for but even if it were something small like HP regen then that would be nice as well.

There would need to be some give or take though with the cost/HP increase if there are going to be any buffs/nerfs/additions.

[Adeptus Noobus]

I could only ever see this being balanced if and only if his unit size would change accordingly in my opinion. Now people would say what about the Hive Tyrant - his unit size is medium. What about the Chaos Lord - you guessed it, medium size. They do have access to charges of some kind like the Warboss has but they do not have the health regen from Angry Bits and the globals. Without changing his unit size to medium upon upgrading to such an improved armor, he would be absolutely insane. I also fear if we give him suppression immunity that the amount of counterplay is too little.

[Tex]

I think they were just talking about weapon_knockback immunity as a trait no? I think its pretty appropriate.

[Dark Riku]

The problem isn't heavy armor under performing. The problem is spiky armor being so damn good.

[Adeptus Noobus]

I think they were just talking about weapon_knockback immunity as a trait no? I think its pretty appropriate.

I can get behind him getting weapon_knockback immunity and the price staying the same. It was Mathis who introduced suppression immunity. I guess we will have to see how weapon_knockback immunity will perform when combined with Angry Bits, because as we all know the Warboss does not give a damn about suppression at all when charging. The only thing that does stop him is knockback.

I do agree with Riku however that the overperformance of Spiky Armor just makes 'eavy Armor so unnattractive that the power cost you have to invest is just never justified. So I second his motion to nerf Spiky Armor.

[egewithin]

Please don't forget that Cyborg Implants just overshadows by everything.

Just saying

[Adeptus Noobus]

Please don't forget that Cyborg Implants just overshadows by everything.

Just saying

You get health, a stun and a bigger stomp dmg. Nothing more. With Spiky Armor you get more health, insane health regen and a melee deterrent that makes the Warboss pretty much unapproachable by infantry melee squads in T1. It also has far superior synergy with Angry Bits.

Unless I misread your message and you meant that it gets overshadowed by everything else.

[Black Relic]

This dawned on me.

How about when the Warboss gets the Heavy Armor he gets the plague marine type? And he acts as light cover So like orks can use the Warboss as a cover object? That would be interesting i think. He gets controlled less from suppression, allows a bit of synergy with kustom shootas due to not really being affected by suppression and allows a bit better of a support build with the boss pole. (Also move it to t2)

The Bio Plasma should cause a DoT effect in an area. Then it forces that set up team to actual set up in a different position a distance away from the targeted location rather them just re setting up.

[Torpid]

The Bio Plasma should cause a DoT effect in an area. Then it forces that set up team to actual set up in a different position a distance away from the targeted location rather them just re setting up.

That is such an obvious solution yet one nobody seems to have mentioned before. I really like it.