Old Timer Interested in DoW2 Again

[Dukenukem117]

The last time I remember booting up DoW2 was right before retribution launched. Even though I was really excited about the expansion at first, I never actually installed it. Now that DoW3 is announced, I found this crazy mod and am just blown away by what the community has done. I'm not sure if I'm ready to get into a competitive MP game again, but I have many a fond memories of DoW2. I've been watching replays and reading the codex to try to understand this mod better, but I've got some lingering questions that I hope some of you can answer.

1) How is the balance? I know this is a loaded question and the original game was never really balanced. It seemed like every patch brought another hilariously OP unit combo to exploit, and new additions constantly brought power creep. It's crazy to see how many races there are now and how many new units have been added. Balancing seems like it would be a monumental task! The original game was designed for 3v3, but is Elite balanced more for 1v1 or team games?

2) What's the biggest changes to gameplay or mod philosophy? It seems like all the knockback on retreat skills were removed. Was that to reduce RNG from squadwipes? Is the game less chancy in general?

3) Is there a 2v2 scene? I don't see many replays of it. The majority seems to be 1v1.

4) Ordo Malleus vs CSM vs SM? There seems to be a lot of shared derivatives for each faction in Elite, especially with the new units added to each. Each one has a land raider, a dreadnaught, a jump troop, a basic trooper, etc. How do they play differently? I watched one 3v3 replay with Ordo and their units seem to scale incredibly well into T3. They looked downright OP.

5) Was there another mod called Elite? I remember during DoW2, there was a mod that was meant to make the game more like DoW1. Some races had free foot troopers to throw into the grinder, whereas others like SM had to pay for every reinforcement. Reason is the SM faction had Sternguards, and I think there was a Greyknight faction as well. Was this once that mod or was that something else entirely?

6) Eldar Tag - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKOcGLa82vE - Is fighting Eldar with SM still like this? Where you are constantly trying to retake points despite having less squads and less mobility in general (no FoF, Webways, etc)? I'm assuming this goes for Ordo too?

[evilmario5]

The last time I remember booting up DoW2 was right before retribution launched. Even though I was really excited about the expansion at first, I never actually installed it. Now that DoW3 is announced, I found this crazy mod and am just blown away by what the community has done. I'm not sure if I'm ready to get into a competitive MP game again, but I have many a fond memories of DoW2. I've been watching replays and reading the codex to try to understand this mod better, but I've got some lingering questions that I hope some of you can answer.

1) How is the balance? I know this is a loaded question and the original game was never really balanced. It seemed like every patch brought another hilariously OP unit combo to exploit, and new additions constantly brought power creep. It's crazy to see how many races there are now and how many new units have been added. Balancing seems like it would be a monumental task! The original game was designed for 3v3, but is Elite balanced more for 1v1 or team games?

2) What's the biggest changes to gameplay or mod philosophy? It seems like all the knockback on retreat skills were removed. Was that to reduce RNG from squadwipes? Is the game less chancy in general?

3) Is there a 2v2 scene? I don't see many replays of it. The majority seems to be 1v1.

4) Ordo Malleus vs CSM vs SM? There seems to be a lot of shared derivatives for each faction in Elite, especially with the new units added to each. Each one has a land raider, a dreadnaught, a jump troop, a basic trooper, etc. How do they play differently? I watched one 3v3 replay with Ordo and their units seem to scale incredibly well into T3. They looked downright OP.

5) Was there another mod called Elite? I remember during DoW2, there was a mod that was meant to make the game more like DoW1. Some races had free foot troopers to throw into the grinder, whereas others like SM had to pay for every reinforcement. Reason is the SM faction had Sternguards, and I think there was a Greyknight faction as well. Was this once that mod or was that something else entirely?

6) Eldar Tag - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKOcGLa82vE - Is fighting Eldar with SM still like this? Where you are constantly trying to retake points despite having less squads and less mobility in general (no FoF, Webways, etc)? I'm assuming this goes for Ordo too?

Question:1
the elite mod has undergone a few patchs since I joined elite and each has other added or further balanced the game (which is why there is no set days for each new patch so the elite dev and community that's working on it can bring more to to elite mod) balance seem good for both 1v1 and team games from my perspective.

Question: 2
with the balances the game is more skill/ team work based (less RNG yes)
example you still can wipe squads in retreat (but the game has more unit preservation which makes it harder to do so long as you don't forget your Devastator squad and banshees give them free hugs)

Question: 3
you referring to the 1v1 esl ranking other then that there are group like the FA beginners group who setup games (1v1,2v2,3v3) and there's also the tournaments that are held (monthly rumble tournament MRT(1v1) TT(2v2 and 3v3)

Question:4
Ordo Malleus does not have a jump squad(yes but its in Tier3 and is a jack of trade unit) and there setup team plays differently
chaos have there different perks for each commander same with space marines that help to make how you use there race more effective in one way or another and have different roles. I'm a Ordo Malleus (main) player and I can be wreaked in (team games 2v2,3v3) if I get double and push off early game which gives rise to bashing the Ordo's power nodes maing it hard for them to tech up.

Question:5 I'm not sure but there are other dow2 reb mods that change up the game to besides elite mod I guess your referring to them.

Qestion:6 i'll leave this to a space marine main to answer that.

[Dukenukem117]

Thanks. That clears up a lot. I'm surprised GK isn't more popular and that their W/L is the lowest of all:

https://dawnofwar.info/esl/stats

[Swift]

1) How is the balance? I know this is a loaded question and the original game was never really balanced. It seemed like every patch brought another hilariously OP unit combo to exploit, and new additions constantly brought power creep. It's crazy to see how many races there are now and how many new units have been added. Balancing seems like it would be a monumental task! The original game was designed for 3v3, but is Elite balanced more for 1v1 or team games?

It's mostly fairly good. What often happens every patch is a unit will be changed and come out unexpectedly better or worse, and sometimes quite expectedly. An example of this would be the Fire Dragons, who before were a bit rubbish, bleedy, and not great in general. Then they got buffed, got a cost increase and damage and knockback resistance, and suddenly they were unstoppable. Of course these changes were ironed out last patch, and now they're in a good spot. It's usually quite good, but if you're not used to the changes, then you might be confused at first.

2) What's the biggest changes to gameplay or mod philosophy? It seems like all the knockback on retreat skills were removed. Was that to reduce RNG from squadwipes? Is the game less chancy in general?

I suppose there were some rather fundamental changes, like melee walkers getting melee resistance, but apart from that I can't really remember.

3) Is there a 2v2 scene? I don't see many replays of it. The majority seems to be 1v1.

Not really, every attempt to revive it has been mostly unsuccessful. The 2v2 MRTs do pop up from time to time, but it's the least played mode.

4) Ordo Malleus vs CSM vs SM? There seems to be a lot of shared derivatives for each faction in Elite, especially with the new units added to each. Each one has a land raider, a dreadnaught, a jump troop, a basic trooper, etc. How do they play differently? I watched one 3v3 replay with Ordo and their units seem to scale incredibly well into T3. They looked downright OP.

Ugh, OM are NOT OP. They used to be Grey Knights and functioned very similarly to SM, but over time they've become geared more toward starting at an Inquisitorial level and then moving the Grey Knight element to be the elite of the force. Whilst they have similar units, they do very different things. ASM are the typical jack of all trades disruption squad, Raptors are a slightly less impactful but ultimately useful in the long run with the tier 3 meltaguns upgrade. Similarly the Interceptors were moved from a conventional assault role in tier 1 to tier 3 and given Psycannons to become a teleporting AV/AI squad. Whislt they have similar units, the army wide playstyle and way these units work are fundamentally different.

5) Was there another mod called Elite? I remember during DoW2, there was a mod that was meant to make the game more like DoW1. Some races had free foot troopers to throw into the grinder, whereas others like SM had to pay for every reinforcement. Reason is the SM faction had Sternguards, and I think there was a Greyknight faction as well. Was this once that mod or was that something else entirely?

You're probably thinking of Destroyer 40k, the oen with all the big units that don't cost very much, which is where the models for the Grey Knights came from (thank you Bloodravage).

6) Eldar Tag - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKOcGLa82vE - Is fighting Eldar with SM still like this? Where you are constantly trying to retake points despite having less squads and less mobility in general (no FoF, Webways, etc)? I'm assuming this goes for Ordo too?

Facing Eldar can be like that but most high level games nowadays often see it the other way around, since people experiment more and use Scouts better, facing a good SM player means you lose the map fast. Depends a lot on skill and gamemode really.

[Dukenukem117]

Are all commanders competitive in 1v1? I remember in the original game some were quite better than others, and people had tier lists going.

[Nurland]

Some heroes are still better than others but generally apeaking it is better than in Retail imho.

I would give a more detailed answer but I am on mobile so cba to do a more detailed/longer post