Considering going cold turkey on sentinels

[Oddnerd]

Hi all,

I wanted to see what other IG players thought about abstaining from the use of sentinels. Specifically, are there any matchups where you consider 1 sentinel to be essential? I know that when I am facing orks and nids they are amazing at deterring sluggas/hormagaunts... but otherwise I hate the damn things and usually am happy around mid T2 when the worthless sod eats a burst of inferno bolts and dies.

I play mostly LC (and INQ against people who piss me off). Can a no-sentinel build be pulled off reasonably well? I could experiment on it, but with such a small player base I don't want to ruin other peoples games by experimenting on a build that is doomed to fail.

[Torpid]

I don't think there is any build that is optimal that doesn't use sentinels. Especially in 1v1. They're just way too cost effective to not use.

What is permissible to avoid sentinels vs? Well, ranged generic unit spams. But if they get melee or set up teams you get screwed and even vs that the sentinel is a btter choice than GM really.

[egewithin]

There isn't a spesific build for anything in this game. No matter how hard it is to play without a Sentinal vs Chaos, it is possible.

If you play LC, 3 Guardsmen with Aura of Disipline support is pretty mean, as long as you keep melee away from you. This is possible against SM. Even if there is a melee threat, you can basicialy shoot it down untill it reaches. Heretics, Sluggaz, Banshees and stuff. But, it is always better to back them up with Heavy Weapons Team or Catachans. And I think HWT is a MUST at this point. HWT + Cats or HWT + Spotters for dealing with set up teams.

You should get Chimera or a Medical Bunker for those 3 GM. Otherwise, you wın't feel the strength of 3 GM. Possible threats can be dealed with. Wraith Guard can be tied up with LC or Cats. For walkers; get Ogryns if they are ranged, they loose melee resistance. And the power claw is a perfet choice here.

[Soberson]

It's tier 1 Leman Russ, why would I do that unless I intend to bleed to death

[terpterp]

Sentinels are stupidly good in T1. Lets consider in strengths and weaknesses.


Strengths

First, it's a great melee deterrent. Stomp stuns and disperses units, and the sentinel cannot be tied up. It's faster than most other T1 units and can fire while backing up, making it next to impossible to drive off with melee units and still an annoyance with ranged.

Next, it tanks damage very well (in T1). It doesn't bleed and has great synergy with the guardsmen enhanced repair. You only need to a single model from each GM squad to repair, so it's like getting +35 h/s on the sentinel for next to free, assuming you've got two guardsmen squads.

The ability to crush cover quickly is awesome. It's a great tactic on the 3v3 lane maps to stick your GM in the green cover and send the sentinel to smash theirs. Not always possible, depending on the map, but I've found it often comes into play in early engagements.

This is a very small benefit, but all of the sentinel's DPS being focused in one weapon makes it good at picking off models the guardsmen damage. Guardsmen are very inaccurate.

Finally, the missile launcher provides some excellent long range explosive DPS come T2. Effective against all races, and devastating against the high model infantry armor races. Most importantly it provides soft AV, which is sorely lacking in the entire IG lineup. Ogryns are poor AV against most targets. You don't always pick up a setup team in T1. Melta storm troopers by themselves are useless if the vehicle is supported. Stormtroopers can get it down to maybe half health before being melted themselves. Usually, once the stormtroopers are forced off, the vehicle can remain on the field since no other threat exists. With the long range AV coming from the sentinel it now has to back off.

All in all, it provides a unique support that can't be fully replaced by another unit. Let's go over the weaknesses.


Weaknesses

Vehicle pathing fucking blows in DOWII. The sentinel requires more micro to be effective than any other unit I've played in the game, and can get killed very easily if you aren't careful. You can also accidentally smash your own cover trying to get it close enough to repair. All of this can be sort of negated by excellent micro, but it's tough depending on the map.

It falls off pretty quickly in about the middle of T2. The explosive damage is no longer enough, and the sentinel will inevitably be caught by a ranged blob or a snare and go down. If it manages to live it can make for a very annoying decap unit, but I can count on one hand how many sentinels I've managed to get to T3. Additionally, it feels bad investing a total of 430/40 into a unit that is not likely to survive to the end of T2.


So, can it be replaced?

So what takes its place? The most common answer is another GM squad. You'll probably come out with about the same req, as GM+sergeant is less upkeep and costs less than a sentinel. 16.8 upkeep for the additional GM, 25.5 for the sentinel. You'll bleed a decent bit more though, as your GM will be taking most of the fire from now on. The GM will also scale much much better past T2 than your sentinel, and have great synergy with a med bunker or chimera.

However I feel this replacement is a mistake, no matter how good it looks on paper. When your army is made of a majority of one unit type, and all units of the same composition (low health, high model, infantry armor), it feels much easier to deal with. You just get a bunch of AOE. I feel relieved whenever I see an IG player with no sentinel and a 3rd GM because its so much easier to play well against. I think part of this is a flaw inherent to the game. The cover you place your guardsmen squads behind is almost never big enough to house the full squad. There's always a few models poking out that die very quickly. This issue is extremely noticeable with a 3rd squad. The 3rd GM is usually going to be out of cover in engagements and focused down quickly, especially in the lane type maps. Or you can try and bunch them all together in cover, but then they're demolished by any AOE.

So is there a better option? Maybe, but I'm not sure what. An investment that will last longer than the sentinel but still be effective in T1, something to make up for the loss of tankiness/staying power and anti-melee. But then none of the other T1 units fill in for the lost DPS, unless you want to bleed catachans like crazy getting them into range.

I'd keep the sentinel. It's good.

[MYNAME]

Hi all,

I wanted to see what other IG players thought about abstaining from the use of sentinels. Specifically, are there any matchups where you consider 1 sentinel to be essential? I know that when I am facing orks and nids they are amazing at deterring sluggas/hormagaunts... but otherwise I hate the damn things and usually am happy around mid T2 when the worthless sod eats a burst of inferno bolts and dies.

I play mostly LC (and INQ against people who piss me off). Can a no-sentinel build be pulled off reasonably well? I could experiment on it, but with such a small player base I don't want to ruin other peoples games by experimenting on a build that is doomed to fail.

DO I PISS YOU OFF . JK just subscribed to this page. Cheers and may Fitzwillis Gas Cloud not find you.

[Adeptus Noobus]

For walkers; get Ogryns if they are ranged, they loose melee resistance. And the power claw is a perfet choice here.

To quote Freeman here:"I never ever get the Powerklaw in teamgames. In 1v1 maybe but I don't like it.". An executed Lascannon deals so much better and faster with every vehicle threat. 330 dmg with each shot.
Also, keep in mind that the Wraithlord retains his melee resistance even when upgraded. His melee special is also no joke.

[egewithin]

To quote Freeman here:"I never ever get the Powerklaw in teamgames. In 1v1 maybe but I don't like it.". An executed Lascannon deals so much better and faster with every vehicle threat. 330 dmg with each shot.
Also, keep in mind that the Wraithlord retains his melee resistance even when upgraded. His melee special is also no joke.

Okay, exept for Wraithlord than.

I know some people thinks that Power Klaw is overshadowed by Fist of Brockus, but I like the Klaw. Stubborness + Klaw is a good combo. His damage increases by 75% and why da heck should I not get it. Okay, Brockus is better, I agree. But what about T2? Commisar can just bleed important models with it. Super scary melee unit with fire support. And you may not be able to get that 75% damage buff in 1v1 since you have units capping around.

[The Licking Boogyman]

wut sentinels are amazing in tier 1-2 in my opinion. like they are quite annoying to deal with for most ppl because first things first it has stomp good vs melee and or setup-teams in some cases as well as stopping the dps. Also it can be repaired on the field, so with good micro its pretty surviveable. in tier 2 you get the missile launchers which are damn powerful not only vs infantry and setup-teams, but also can hunt down transports in rare and lucky cases even other tier 3 vehicles. its a allrounder unit that is hard to control, but when mircoing is no problem then this unit is so much worth it. also 2gm and 2 sentinel build is one scary build i noticed