Vindicare sniper

[Aetherion]

The sniper topic brought up by Ordie reminds me of why snipers were changed (for good or bad). The one inconsistency is the titular vindicare assassin of the Ordo Malleus faction, still possessing model killing firing patterns of high damage (190 sniper dmg without increases vs HI and 0.6 modifier vs commander), long cooldown (8 seconds), low set up time (0.6 seconds), allowing for the infuriating kite and shoot tactics of the past. This also puts it at odds with its activated ability which is a on hit reveal effect.

I'd like to open the discussion as to whether OM needs this capability to remain competitive, or is it just an annoyance to be dealt with (killing vindicares are quite satisfying) or something that needs adjusting.

[Torpid]

Well most of the time when I buy a vindicare I buy it for AV not for anti-infantry.

Yet it fires so damn slow. 8seconds between each shot is WAY too long for missle tac damage on a race that doesn't really get vehicle snares...

So I see the vindicare as more or less a brokenly balanced unit atm.

He is too effective vs infantry for an AV unit and not effective at his AV role, but he is an AV unit because he costs so much damn req in an already req-heavy race that if you get him for anti-infantry purposes you are just going to lose - that's what purifiers and HB rhinos and dreads are for.

[Ace of Swords]

The VA is in a wierd spot, like GKs in any case, he's supposed to bring in hard AV but in that role he was simply overpowered when he had the snare at the same time he's supposed to somewhat fill in the role of artillery with his strong sniping potential in order to deal with setup team spam since GKs lack proper artillery (plasma cannon dred is more of a blob counter due to it's short range and subsceptibily to las cannons).

All in all the conclusion if always the same the VA needs a total rework as do the GK as a faction.

[Cyris]

I keep trying to post in here, but everything I type ends up devolving into complaining about how bad OM are. One last try...

On the one hand, I really like the new snipers. They are so much less toxic for the game, and still preform their roles. I think they were a wonderful change.

On the other hand, the VA is mediocre at best. Lowering his spike damage (and maybe changing his damage type to sniper_hi) would definitely make him less toxic, but he'd need some more changes in tandem with that to keep him playable. As is, I all but stopped using him for AV in favor of las-rhino and upgrades to T1 purgs. And as mentioned, he is NOT a good pick to fill anti-infantry role due more to compositional and economic pressures then his stats/capabilities. So when do you buy him now? Answer - not much.

Like Ace said, VA needs more substantive changes, but so does the whole faction. The question posed was does the VA need his old school sniper spike damage for OM to remain competitive. The answer is, OM aren't competitive, so targeting a unit for straight nerfs doesn't make much sense in a vacuum. There are a lot of reasonable changes the VA could receive, and I'm in favor of reduced toxicity in most cases (and high spike damage snipers definitely are/were toxic).


Ok, that was decent enough to post. Though it did give me an idea...

[Ordie]

The VA is in a wierd spot, like GKs in any case...

All in all the conclusion if always the same the VA needs a total rework as do the GK as a faction.

I very much agree with Ace. Is there a place where the re-work conversation is happening? There was a "Chose your own adventure" thread a while back for OM, but I can't find it at the moment.

[egewithin]

A decrease on cooldown of anti-infantry ammo would solve a little bit maybe?

Can it?

[Vindicarex]

OM are like, the worst 1v1 race. If anything they need buffs.