Any Hope For Me?

[Hutsy]

Hi All,

I LOVE this game but I STILL suck big time.

I mainly play IG, and I've gone from LG, to LC and now Inquisitor and I lack answers to counter anything my opponent throws at me.

I tend to play 1v1 against a friend from work (and other people too) and he's usually Ork WB and he just trashes me every time.

I'm useless at Power Management so SM and GK are tough for me to do anything with so I figured IG would be my best bet. No matter what I do, I just can't counter things.

He tries for T2 as quick as possible and I try my hardest to get Storm Troopers with melta bombs up ASAP but that's no guarantee to get rid of his Deff Dred or Wattruck.

I'm really at a loss and I don't care about losing but I'm getting really fed up of not progressing.

I know you guys get so many questions from people like me but I've tried so many (I feel) different approaches that I'm getting angry at myself

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Oddnerd]

There is definitely hope. Just don't expect to start playing on par with someone who has 500+ hours while you have a double-digit number. Half of this game is just about memorizing each race's cheap gimmicks and how to counter them early on.

I have 900+ hours, 600 of which are from 2009-2010, and I am still only in the mid-skill region. I was complete garbage for probably the first 500 hours of that.

[Toilailee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKWrN58NbD8

Silly quotes aside yes there is hope, as long as you keep practising and keep striving to get better you will improve. Just remember that the moment YOU decide that you cannot improve anymore you'll stop improving (seen that happen with plenty of noobs and couple of people who were kinda good at this game).

Motivational speeches aside you could watch some casts or ask questions when you don't know how to counter something and then experiment in the next games. And like Oddnerd said watching casts help with memorizing the game, just don't only watch casts cos it's more important to keep playing yourself. When you try something new focus on the positive aspects even if it doesn't work and learn something from it. By repeating this process endlessly you'll eventually piece together "your playstyle" where you have rough guidelines for what you want to do in every game and how to counter any composition.

And start now, this game maybe dying but you'll have time to get good before dow3 launches.

[Takadekadaka]

If he tries to fast tech, it means his build is vulnerable in T1. Do whatever you can to target his power, or force him to spend power. If you disrupt his power production, he's in a bad spot assuming you're on top of your power production.

Always get a sentinel, and get stomp on it ASAP. If you keep it close to your guardsmen, it effectively acts as a counter to sluggas/warboss. I wouldn't use the stomp aggressively against the shootas because they can easily focus it down if it gets too close. 2x guardsmen 1 sent, node, T1.5 unit should be a good build you should practice with until you feel more comfortable trying out more aggressive/risky builds like 2GM2Sent or 3GM1Sent

I'd say either catachans or a HWT would do well as your T1.5 purchase. I prefer the HWT as they are easier to use - HWT as you know will shut down anything in it's cone of influence, and will control both the warboss and the sluggas. If he chooses to get stormboys, you have the sentinel to stomp, but it's critical that you have your hero counterinitiate in some way to allow your HWT to re-set up and take back control of the engagement.

Catas are pretty good too as they offer two methods of disruption - the old unreliable is good for disrupting blobs of ranged damage (shootas), and you can use them defensively against sluggas or the warboss closing in. Combined with the sentinel's stomp, you can control two melee units in a given engagement.

I can't speak for either LG or the INQ, but the powersword makes the LC an extremely effective counter initiator. The Lead By Example's 100% special rate effectively disrupts whatever the sluggas/stormboys are trying to do, and the increased damage can punish them for closing in. If you're acting aggresively, the Lead By Example will let him close in extremely fast and shut down the opposing ranged army (or at least get them to turn around and stop raining fire on your guardsmen and sentinels), allowing the rest of your army to follow and keep the pressure up.

For the INQ, Use INQ's hammer of the witches whenever the WB tries to engage in combat (and allow your T1.5 unit to follow up). 3.5 seconds isn't a lot of time, but it's enough time to pour damage out to potentially force him off, or his supporting units out. This is especially true if you manage to stun him in front of a HWT, where the damage debuff for target distance is significantly lower.

That said, I think you would do well to be aggressive. Bully the shootas with your hero, and your methods for controlling his melee units should allow you to take engagements easily (especially since he's choosing to invest heavily into power).

Aside from that, if you want to learn how to improve your play significantly - WATCH REPLAYS. Go on the ESL and download as much IG 1v1 replays as you can and watch what they do. Study their builds, find out who they focus during engagements, when they engage. Look at how often and when they use abilities. Then try it.

I think my problems when I first started was never using abilities (unit, global, or otherwise), and never splitting my units. With IG, it's critical you split your units up both across the map, and even in engagements. Never clump up, and never let your guardsmen move the way they want to. A-moving is easy, but if you want to make the most of your paper-thin guardsmen, you HAVE to optimize every variable (cover, focus fire, movement, etc.) you can at all times.

As for hope - I used to have a 10% Win ratio (5% when I played Chaos exclusively). I've grinded on 1v1's to the point where it's now maybe 35-55%, depending on the day. It's a hard game to learn, and it's an even harder game when you play as IG. It's well worth it though.

[Ordie]

Not only is there hope, there's even a group for new players!

https://dawnofwar.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1927

Here you are welcome to ask lots of questions, and get some practice against folks in your skill range.

[Soberson]

"Problem is something you do isn't working but you keep doing it. Try something new even if it doesn't make sense at first" - Franklin Winston Einstein.

For the most part, what Takadekadaka said: try going hard in t1. If he's not going for ranged blob, he's gonna get hurt from your sentinel + flamers would come extra handy for bashing his power farms.

[Hutsy]

Sorry for the delay guys - you're all heroes!

The above is helpful for sure. I went from a "standard" build (GM and Sent) with a relatively normal opening of grabbing VPs and local Rec/Power ASAP but was getting munched, to a more aggressive opening opening to GM, GM - use one squad to cap everything local by queuing up the orders, then advancing with the Inq and 2 GMs to find my opponents squads to try and scare them off from points.

I went from sucking at early game, to being ok at mid game (then losing) to being much better at early game and sucking at mid game (then losing), so I'm lacking balance. There have been a few occasions where I've been THAT terrible that I get locked into my base and literally can't get out.

I'll continue to experiment, and I had a couple of good 2v2 team games (although I lost) the other night with the FA group and I felt more comfortable.

Thanks again,

John

[Takadekadaka]

Glad you're doing better in T1. In my opinion, T1 is the most important tier because it sets the stage for everything else - it is easier to stay ahead than it is to try to catch up from a tech/power/army deficit. As soon as you learn to keep your performance consistent throughout the tiers, you will do great.

Side capping is a great tool with the third guardsmen squad. Don't forget you can force an engagement on one side of the map, freeing your 3rd guardsmen squad to march straight to their natural power and bash (either by landing a turret, or purchasing flamers. Note that the turret can only damage the generators, and will do no damage to the node, but will continue to hold the area while you're away). If you can master that, you should be great for the rest of the match!

Do you know what you're losing to in T2? Are you not sure of which units to purchase, when?

Are you switching to a passive style after an aggressive T1 opening? Something I've learned is that once you have the advantage, you must press it until the very last second - the moment you become passive, you let your opponent catch up.

[MYNAME]

Everyone mentioned casts but also watch your own replays. You will be able to spot your mistakes and see patterns on how certain other races play.

Your friend fast techs which is kinda wierd because most ork players focus on T1 first. They are pretty strong early game. Especially in a 1v1 setting you want to preferably make major wins early.

As a guardsmen player vs orks you definantly want to have a sentinel and heavy weapons squad some cases catachans. (This will force him to buy storm boys because ork mobs are pretty vulnerable to suppression. Keep ur weapons team covered and focus down the warboss. Inquisitor is probably the best hero to counter warbosses and ork blobs. Another thing that works vs mobs are flamethrowers. Deal good damage.

[Hutsy]

I know this is old but thought it made sense to keep my tales of woe in one place.

Got back into playing again after a while and it's really not happening for me. Same situation no matter what faction/commander I'm against now (I used to only really face Ork WB).

People have been super helpful and trying to guide me but it's not clicking.

I tend to lose first engagements most times out of 10, full retreat, power bashed and it's (I kid you not) pretty much game over from there. I struggle to keep the map - struggle to keep power as it keeps getting bashed and I take an age to get to T2 - as soon as any enemy vehicle comes out I'm screwed.

And I dread to even think how many times I've been trapped in my base (yes it's really that bad).

If I try to spread out to capture the map, I get wrecked, and if I stick together, I have no mobility for map control.

I've continued to watch casts and replays but I'm still horrific.

[Adeptus Noobus]

The first thing is knowing your race that you play with and the options/weaknesses/strengths they have. Same goes for the enemies race. From there you need to have a plan in mind that suits you and your playstyle and takes into consideration the map (i.e. layout), etc.
In 1v1 the most important thing is timing and managing your units right. By that I mean that you know at which time you purchase either one more generator or another unit, where you want to engage and IF you can engage. Get one of these wrong, you are on the backfoot, get them wrong multiple times, you are going to lose the game. The is a hard reality but it's the way this game (unfortunately) plays out.
Let's look at our game for example. It was a mirror game (which always sucks) but I approached it knowing the strength of IG and that is the Sentinel in T1. I simply engaged you when I knew I had the upper hand, which was the first engagement at your VP, and sent my Sentinel in with the Guardsmen in tow. Obviously I forced off the Inquisitor first since she is the only real threat to my Guardsmen apart from your Sentinel, which was miles away from me and (and this is key) your Guardsmen. After that it pretty much steamrolled from there since I decapped your power and put up a Lasturret to cover it. You did the right thing getting power up at the other farm btw. The next crucial engagement was when you lost your Sentinel, I presume due to a micro-fail.
Take it from me, it takes lots and lots and lots and lots of failure before you start seeing results. Get to know your main race, the other races and then you can look at games a totally different way. When you watch a replay, pause it and analyze the situation: why did he engage, was he in a favorable position to begin with, what unit X is attacking unit Y, how is his positioning, what are the unit levels? All these things come into play when you are playing. I suggest you read this: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=718 . This is basically a "How to get better at this game" from Codex and really really thorough. It touches multiple subjects that are important in 1v1s and explains their significance and how to incorporate them into your way of thinking.
From there you just need somebody to play against, preferably not somebody who will walk all over you but somebody more on your level and take it from there.

[Hutsy]

Let's look at our game for example. It was a mirror game (which always sucks) but I approached it knowing the strength of IG and that is the Sentinel in T1. I simply engaged you when I knew I had the upper hand, which was the first engagement at your VP, and sent my Sentinel in with the Guardsmen in tow. Obviously I forced off the Inquisitor first since she is the only real threat to my Guardsmen apart from your Sentinel, which was miles away from me and (and this is key) your Guardsmen. After that it pretty much steamrolled from there since I decapped your power and put up a Lasturret to cover it. You did the right thing getting power up at the other farm btw. The next crucial engagement was when you lost your Sentinel, I presume due to a micro-fail.

I watched it back after reading this and yeah it was painful to see but your commentary made it clearer. I underestimated Heavy Bolter fire on Senti so yeah I screwed up the management there as I was trying to flame you out.

I suggest you read this: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=718 . This is basically a "How to get better at this game" from Codex and really really thorough. It touches multiple subjects that are important in 1v1s and explains their significance and how to incorporate them into your way of thinking.

Thanks - really want to digest this. It's a shame the computer doesn't Power bash to give me a more "realistic" experience to allow me to work on bits at a time, as I appreciate it must be frustrating for you guys to play with guys like me.

As always - forever appreciated for the help. It's awesome people are so accepting of less experienced people.

Hopefully I'll stop being a little bitch over time

[The Dragon Reborn]

I should be on the discord server a bit this weekend, so I can have a few more games with you if you like.....give me a break from Vermintide.

I need to get back into 1v1's again anyway, and settle on a main race instead of swapping and changing every weekend.