Potential Shee Change

[Psycho]

You mean the cooldown before they can charge again after the last one?

[Flash]

yep

[Wise Windu]

Is a delay in subsequent charges possible?

Yeah. There's a cooldown for charge. The Warlock hero, for example, can charge once every 16 seconds.

[Flash]

Yep I'm aware of that. To use the warlock as the example since you mentioned him:

Charge 1 happens. 16 sec cool down. charge two happens. 18 sec cool down. charge 3 happens 20 sec cooldown. then reset back to 16.

[Wise Windu]

Oh ok. Not sure if that would be possible. As far as I know, there isn't a charge cooldown modifier in either rbf string or SCAR.

[Atlas]

But it's definitely an interesting change. Good thinking!

[Broodwich]

https://dawnofwar.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=582&p=17052#p17052

[Deflaktor]

Charge 1 happens. 16 sec cool down. charge two happens. 18 sec cool down. charge 3 happens 20 sec cooldown. then reset back to 16.

I dont see the need to increase the cooldown. You would rarely chase a unit for 16 seconds.

But the charge cooldown is indeed a good idea. Im all for it if they could use charge only once every 16 seconds. On top of that the speed cap and we are set I think.

[Torpid]

https://dawnofwar.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=582&p=17052#p17052

Lol @ Kvek's comment. Miss that guy.

[Adeptus Noobus]

Without coming off as brown-nosing Torpid but he pretty much laid it out in the thread that Broodwhich linked to.

TL;DR: Shees won't be OP with the charge and they are prone to bleed like mad.

[Oddnerd]

Oh boy that thread was great. This is what you miss out on when you heavily moderate against hostility, nothing but boring, sterile politeness.

#MakeEliteHateAgain

[Torpid]

Oh boy that thread was great. This is what you miss out on when you heavily moderate against hostility, nothing but boring, sterile politeness.

#MakeEliteHateAgain

lmao.

Did you see the original thread it referenced?

I quote myself saying there "Beating an eldar that buys shees is as easy as pissing in a bucket".

Lmao. Wtf Torpid.

[Atlas]

Without coming off as brown-nosing Torpid but he pretty much laid it out in the thread that Broodwich linked to.

TL;DR: Shees won't be OP with the charge and they are prone to bleed like mad.

Tbf, a lot has changed since then. Them now being 350 req and starting with more hp are two examples that come straight to mind.

[Black Relic]

Increase cost of Shees to 425. Remove them being able to charge. Give them Fleet of Foot out of the gate, remove damage modifier, and add exclusive to the speed the fleet of foot gives. Lower aspect cost to 50/20. T2 shees would be OP though. But something to consider.

[Flash]

Sheesh at 425 would be too expensive/screw up the timing! I'd never have a Shee squad for the first engagement in a 3v3. And if I did then it woukd be 1 DA 1 Shee which usually isn't enough.

@Deflktor That was just an example using the warlock if how it would work. If shees had 16 sec cool down they would never chase things across the map. They'd also be wayyy less viable period.

Shees currently have a cool down of 6 sec. So it would be more 6, 8, 10

[Atlas]

It seems to me the real problem with adding back in the charge would be the fact that shees now more easily stack with all the Eldar speed boosts. Charge cooldown and all that is fine, but perhaps the real cancer here is with speed stacking.

[Psycho]

Speed cap and retreat speed sound like the best solutions so far. I'd go with speed cap since even then it incentivizes spreading the buffs rather than stacking them, or saving them to replace the ones that wear out.

[Black Relic]

Shees would automatically have fleet of foot making that first engagement in a 3v3 faster. You usually find that people will wait for their 4th squad in a 3v3 to make them have more damage to lay on. Eldar is no exception. Most people will wait for their 2nd DA to push with first engagement. If Shees start with fleet and don't have a damage mitigation when it's used (due to them having no charge) then the first engagement would probably start earlier since shees dont need to close in the get a speed increase from their charge.

[Kvn]

Shees would automatically have fleet of foot making that first engagement in a 3v3 faster. You usually find that people will wait for their 4th squad in a 3v3 to make them have more damage to lay on. Eldar is no exception. Most people will wait for their 2nd DA to push with first engagement. If Shees start with fleet and don't have a damage mitigation when it's used (due to them having no charge) then the first engagement would probably start earlier since shees dont need to close in the get a speed increase from their charge.

Not exactly, since the rec increase would delay them a great deal, and push their timing back considerably (especially if the Eldar wanted to go for quick gens, which is often the case). Plus putting the FoF in place of the melee charge would be a pretty big nerf to their performance. You want to use the FoF for maneuvering, escaping, and/or rapid positioning in a lot of cases, and forcing them to choose between using it to get in, using it to get out, or using it to chase seems like it would make them fairly inconvenient to use.

[Adeptus Noobus]

As far as I remember, FoF does not stack anymore with Swift Movement or the speed buff from the Autarch. Neither with Enhance. I specifically remember Carlos changing that, so that Speed-of-Light Banshees would be a thing of the past.

[Forestradio]

I specifically remember Carlos changing that

[Asmon]

To speed cap banshees would be stupid in a scenario where allies can buff your speed with their own abilities (teamgames being the obvious example), since then banshees wouldn't benefit from.

At most you could reduce any additional speed buff by an increasing percentage depending on how many buffs are already active. If that's possible to do, which I doubt.

The leap is certainly troublesome. Then again I said it ages ago when it was introduced to the game. Another prophecy fulfilled.