General 2.8 Update and Roadmap

[Atlas]

Quick pop in when I have a chance!

I plan to stick around, I'm not leaving the community. I just can't handle all the duties and even though balance lead is probably the "easiest" of the main duties, I just don't play the game enough at a high level to really have a respected opinion on balance. But yeah, I'm not walking out or anything.

Balance lead is not going to be decided by a raw number of votes, this isn't a democracy. This is a dictatorship! But the vouches are important to see how the community feels about who is respected enough to handle the job. From what I've read here, a Cyris administration might be good!

That being said, Paranoid Kami made some amazing promises

[Adeptus Noobus]

Adult and I have already started familiarizing with the code. It’s easier than I thought but I will have to ask some things from time to time.

[Fr33man1800]

Well seing as some people fail to realize how flawed some of the purposed candidates are im just going to propose myself as balance lead. Just to be clear from the start when im proposing myself as balance lead im just suggesting it in paper as in reality as it has been mostly done for the upcoming patch the actual balance changes will come from a closed group of experienced players and general comunity feedback consensus.

While i do agree that some players like torpid and boss are better players than i am. I truly believe that the best balance and game enjoyment experience will come out of comunity driven actions. As afterall the ones that are keeping the comunity alive are the ones who should also get to decide where the game should be headed. Logically with this system their opinions also have a lot of weight so we achieve a compromise between trying to develop ever so slowly a new meta and fixing all the unbalances along the way.

I could add a few reasons on why i would be suitable (random player, active in the comunity , very experienced in RTS, winner of last 1v1 league) but i do truly believe that if you want to support my proposal you should do it because you want the game to balanced by a group of experienced players not so much beacause my knowledge or skill as a player, beacuse as i said there is plenty of players that are better or could similarly posses that role.

[Rostam]

is ur profile picture the GDI logo?

[boss]

Well im sorry to hear that atlas hope it all goes well and see you back soon.


You can't balance elite around the community nothing will ever get sorted we have 7 races each with its own players from all skill levels who want stuff to change from not only there race but from others races from buff to nerfs and it will just end up with big shit shows.

Even tho I will bash torpid a lot for his changers least he had the balls to stand up and try and do something even tho im sure he lost sight of balance when doing his stuff, everysingle change will effect matchups, how a wargear performs, how a units does it its role and you get the draft, but in the end that why you have a lead who knows about each of these match up and make sure they don't break anything along the way while keeping the game fresh even if you get alot of hate for it.

[Oddnerd]

Having thrown in my support for Cyris I would also like to say that Freeman would also be great. You can't argue with results. To the minimal extent that my opinion matters, having someone who has experience playing every race is a major selling point, because the last thing we want is for someone who is pulling for one race to show up and impose their biases on the game (I love Vindi, but if he was lead dev I would expect big shootas to be nerfed into oblivion).

I think the game needs 1 person who makes the final decisions, but I hope there will be a handful of high-level players there to provide firsthand experience as the basis for advice to the lead designer.

[egewithin]

Cyris with Boss/Freeman/Riku as high-level advisers would be a good team.

This could actually work.

Except Riku, I haven't seen him to accept even a single change asked by the players. He just defends the current version no matter what. Okay, there are a lot of stupid questions around, I agree, but come on man... He is just unnecesserily stubborn.

[TharxGamma]

Cyris with Boss/Freeman/Riku as high-level advisers would be a good team.

This could actually work.

Except Riku, I haven't seen him to accept even a single change asked by the players. He just defends the current version no matter what. Okay, there are a lot of stupid questions around, I agree, but come on man... He is just unnecesserily stubborn.

As Freeboob said, it isn't always down to a single person end of the day that is why I think they could work being high level players and long time players. Riku can be stubborn but I guess everyone is when it comes to their ideas. It's a strange one and no doubt something that will split the community again but also in what Oddnerd said "High-level advisers" not solely up to them. Be interesting to see but Cyris or Freeboob would be good I think.

[Schepp himself]

Hej guys,
Because there is this word "concensus" flying around and I'm not sure, based on the then following discussion, if the word is clear to all. Here's a quick link to the wiki page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_decision-making

I want to point out that if there is no clear way how to find a solution to the problem (that is, the game is not balanced enough), people will bicker a lot more and get frustrated. To be honest, everyone will get frustrated that way in my experience.

That being said, I strongly recommend a lead designer (team) approach and then a transparent formular to come to an actual decision. If you want to let the community participate, then it would be wise to first think about how do you want to let them participate in the discussion. We saw it in the "Consensus-Thread about 2.8.": A list of changes was presented which was "mostly set in stone/consensus" and then the discussion began. To what purpose? To change the consensus? On what basis would a change occur? Gravitas of the player? Length of the argument?

See, when it's not clear to what purpose a discussion is held (and when and how it will end!) it often boils down to "yeah well, you suck and always have and you ignored my very good suggestions in 2.1 (that were implemented in 2.3 - ha!) and you left a mean comment in my stream once." which is somewhat entertaining but toxic for the community and in the end toxic for the game and the balance.

Greets
Schepp himself

[Cyris]

Except Riku, I haven't seen him to accept even a single change asked by the players. He just defends the current version no matter what. Okay, there are a lot of stupid questions around, I agree, but come on man... He is just unnecesserily stubborn.

Riku's current form is that of one of the most reasonable balance voices around - except about eldar

Though he's just as stubborn as ever <3

[Dark Riku]

If I had to pick one then my vote for lead balance would go to Fr33man, backed up by whoever behind him, for a number of reasons. Some already stated by himself.

Except Riku, I haven't seen him to accept even a single change asked by the players. He just defends the current version no matter what. Okay, there are a lot of stupid questions around, I agree, but come on man... He is just unnecesserily stubborn.

You basically answered yourself. Most stuff asked here on the forum are just very, very bad. Mostly by people that have just started, don't know the game that well or lack the skill. Once they get more experience they too will see how bad their suggestions/requests/demands were. I try to show them another perspective on their "complaints". Response depends very hard on the tone of the post though

I do not shoot down much changes from the WIP changelogs at all btw
Because most of those on there are actually reasonable.

Riku's current form is that of one of the most reasonable balance voices around - except about eldar

Why do you guys never remember when I defend Eldar stuff? QQ

[OceansAteAlaska]

Boss gonna make nids great again

[boss]

Looks like I won't be doing anything cos some other clown be in change and ruin elite but oh well least I tried

[OceansAteAlaska]

Damn U actually deserved to be lead boss
Feelsbadman

[Rostam]

for starters give the poor nids less upkeep. they should be able to bleed alot. in 1v1s u constantly have to worry about requisition

[Rostam]

also imo carnifexes are kinda outmatched, they aint tanks . not the mobility of a tank, not the repair support, not the sponsen mounted weapons of a tank and they are expensive . for example idk how nids are suppose to win against IG in t3 in a 1v1 , seems very hard

[Wanderer]

also imo carnifexes are kinda outmatched, they aint tanks . not the mobility of a tank, not the repair support, not the sponsen mounted weapons of a tank and they are expensive . for example idk how nids are suppose to win against IG in t3 in a 1v1 , seems very hard

To start with nid cannot win ig in T1 if nid player survives (somehow) he will face leveled up unkillable guardsmen squads with bunkers or chimera lemans and setup teams, no chance for nid to win that ma at all, untill guardsmen squads will be changed.

[Crewfinity]

Are we really doing this again?

Nid upkeep is totally fine. So are carnifexes.

[boss]

This is the wrong place to talk about balance..................................

[Rostam]

ne true . Agreed
nvm

[Rostam]

I got an Idea
About someone as a head balance ; we need to distinguish between a person who does the balance ;and a person who does programming and stuff
For example; Boss,Freeman,Tex know the game better by nature, hence naturally know what is good for it
Also there people like Cyris,Myradil,Atlas who are great programmers

so lets do "Head Balancer" and "Head Programmer" and separate these two and avoid the confusion

[egewithin]

I got an Idea
About someone as a head balance ; we need to distinguish between a person who does the balance ;and a person who does programming and stuff
For example; Boss,Freeman,Tex know the game better by nature, hence naturally know what is good for it
Also there people like Cyris,Myradil,Atlas who are great programmers

so lets do "Head Balancer" and "Head Programmer" and separate these two and avoid the confusion

And why is that? You think programmrs can't think about balance? Ar they balance designers slaves?

[Rostam]

I got an Idea
About someone as a head balance ; we need to distinguish between a person who does the balance ;and a person who does programming and stuff
For example; Boss,Freeman,Tex know the game better by nature, hence naturally know what is good for it
Also there people like Cyris,Myradil,Atlas who are great programmers

so lets do "Head Balancer" and "Head Programmer" and separate these two and avoid the confusion

And why is that? You think programmrs can't think about balance? Ar they balance designers slaves?

no i think it is not always black and white
Cuz there are some people that dont do programming but understand the game pretty well

[Ayy Eye]

Why you have to make this a race thing? /s

[Rostam]

so who is the head balance now
and who is gonna be in the future

[Tex]

I will be declining any nomination putting me into the position of lead designer. I would have loved to have taken that role on a while back and I feel qualified and objective enough for this role, but my life is too busy for that commitment. As I laid out last week to a large group of reasonable voices in this community, I will happily setup the ground work for an organizational structure with regard to a lead designer being moderated by a council of sorts, who then report to the community at large with relevant matters and large issues that may need a greater level of consensus. The reason that I say I will help in this matter is because I am part of a large professional organization and run one of the chapters, thus I have a very good level of knowledge in how to set this up properly.

I will happily stay as a part of the advisory 'council', and I hope very much that we can usher in an era of balance and structured decision making.

[Crewfinity]

I will happily stay as a part of the advisory 'council', and I hope very much that we can usher in an era of balance and structured decision making.

FORGET THE PROMISE OF PROGRESS AND UNDERSTANDING, FOR IN THE GRIM DARK FUTURE THERE IS ONLY WAR.


Real talk tho an advisory council sounds great. Overall balance is at the point where i dont think we need too many big changes or one person making all the decisions.

[Rostam]

by lead designer u mean u do programming as well?
or just balancing stuff ?

[Rostam]

btw guys .
Codex srsly needs some update :3

[Crewfinity]

by lead designer u mean u do programming as well?
or just balancing stuff ?

Nobody here has been talking about a "lead programmer" except you so.... no. Myrdral does all the coding and as far as i know we havent had any requests to change that.