GK woes vs ?

[ThongSong]

Hi all,

This could be me being terrible with GK, but I really have trouble in the following matchups with Grey knights.

1. Grey knights vs any race that can get a cheap power melee weapon on their hero, namely FC power sword or PC plague sword.

Why? I feel that the BC really can't pressure their hero that much in t1, interceptors are a no no as they'll just get minced up and bleed you tons of resources, rhino ( cant see why this would be a solution but whatever ) getting a rear armour hit would get annihilated, purgation squad flamers will suppress but they can't really force off a hero per se. strike squads will face the same problem as interceptors.

the only real solution I see is really body-piling their hero with EVERYTHING from the get go. hope you strike squad gets a special off, and just smack them to death while they're on their back. Or maybe focus fire them down with storms and ranged fire, but then asms or something will be tying up your ranged units.

so, solutions?

2. GK vs sentinel spam

I generally get humiliated by any IG player who fields 2-3 sentinels. storms don't feel like a viable solution as they bleed very very quickly. purgations don't have the range in T1 and even with psycannons, they have to stop and shoot which pretty much means any sentinel can waddle out of range before it dies. Interceptors cant really pressure them in t1 due to stomp and vehicles having right of way.

Only solution I saw was double strikes double storms, which worked to some extent in one game where I killed off 2/3 sentinels but by that time I'd already invested something in the order of almost 1500 requisition in T1 (including storm trooper bleed, not including gens), while I was chasing down sents. this allowed my opponent to tech to t2, and deploy 4 LG turrets in my base and blow up my HQ. So I'm pretty much spending 500 req vs a 330 req unit that doesn't bleed that can decap the entire map.

and just going from Indrid's most recent GK vs Chaos games, it feels like they really struggle against any anti-melee hero who can dish out power melee and make mince meat out of their expensive little squads.

so, solutions? (l2p and all that)

[Torpid]

Ok, well with regards to the first thing you are totally right. Offensive heroes in general are very difficult to deal with as the gk and this is because they lack a proper suppression unit. Normally it's far easier to control such heroes becuase you can just get havocs say, and then your foe must get asm to counter that, but since he has asm he spent 50 power already and now can't afford power sword + halo. Not the case vs GK.

I would recommend watching this replay which is me playing as GK against Soul Drinker's FC and he does this uber-melee-hero-rush tactic vs me. I generally just kite him with my SS and 2x IST w/ sergeants. I do actually go for purgation and that does help quite a bit, also in t2 the justicar is great on the strike squad for controlling these shield-heroes due to that ability he has which snares them and reduces energy. In the meantime while this hero is wrecking your stuff just harass his units with the BC. Furthermore you can also use WATH to counter his hero. Just activate it before he charges in and kite away with your extra speed and defence. This works exceptionally well against heroes who lack a shield because you can kite with the purgation squad while attacking in melee with your +1 strike squad. If he goes after the purgation he gets flung around by the strike squad and you can focus him down and if he goes after the SS he gets suppressed and they can just move out of melee range and shoot him. Overall though you are seriously talking the truth though regarding offensive heroes vs GK, they do make it tough.

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=287776




Ok so regarding the 2x sentinels, I honestly don't think it's as hard as fighting offensive heroes. You just have to acknowledge that you're going to be under pressure early on. Play defensively, use your BC to tank and tie up the GM, his specials prevent them from repairing, combine your BC's assault with upgraded WATH and you can really pressure those sentinels with your 2x sergeant IST + SS + purgation. The purgation squad is rather optional, against a HWT obviously interceptors are going to be better, but they will cost you a lot to upgrade in t2 and ogryns counter them hard, purgation get caught out by HWTs however they slaughter guardsmen, help counter the LC/Inq with their t1 melee builds and they decimate catachans.

I actually have another replay of me playing against this here: http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=286897




I've been practicing GK for about a week now in 1v1 and they're very strong against eldar if they use the canticle + interceptors build. They also have many good builds vs chaos and SM. They're balanced against IG. However they are pitifully hopeless against tyranids or orks. Orks have it easy due to the painboy and with no proper form of suppression or crowd control the painboy and his burna sluggas just run riot. Painboy+stormboy t1s supported by big shootas is very difficult to overcome, as is 2x sluggas/pb t1s. Tyranid t1 is also a bit of an issue as termagants are economically superior to IST and all the marine models die extremely quickly to their hero/horms+wars. Warriors are also a nuisance due to their HI armour and the passive leap which means they can get into purgation squads and fight in melee without being suppressed unless you use clear vision. Termagants are also a pest against your t3 terminators, but the real issues lies in the tyranid t2. It's an absolute nightmare. Genes+AG wars+venom brood is very difficult to stop because once again they lack proper suppression. In the tyranid MU it's necessary to get purgations to control the warriors and their hero in t2, but also genes in t2, which themselves would own any GKI you get. With no GKI you are free to get a purifier squad which will destroy any tyrant guards they get and certainly help against genes. Near impossible match up though.

The solution to balancing GK is rather simple in theory but not so much in practice. All they need is a traditional suppression/AV team and tanks. Then they would be competitive. The issue is that they can't get these in the codex. However the inquisition can easily requisition imperial forces to aid them as seen by the stormtroopers, so maybe they could get some custom-skinned predators? Also, even if it doesn't make total sense fluff wise, can't we just get a t1 psycannon set-up team that has an arc of fire and suppresses, not too sure how to about the long ranged AV though. Some suppression is really necessary for GK atm though, they need it to counter things like the painboy, offensive heroes, sentinels, warriors and to actually support the GK dreadnought (which atm has no use defensively as the GK army also don't, as they're just melee orks macro-wise with SM stats).

[taco86]

Imo GK still need a bit of work. A couple more heroes and some rounding out of their army would not be a bad idea.

An assassin (tier 2 wargear chooses what type) and an inquisitor with crusader/deathcult squad depending on wargear choices (or something) would be cool. Retarded walking thrones and foolish wanabee ripley (from aliens, durr) exoskeleton dreadknight crap should stay out tho.

[Kilgarn]

Generally I think GK is not rounded out well. It struggles with a few things, as you could see in the GK vs. Chaos matchup vids last time by Indrid

In my opinion, GK has a few really big issues right now, simply by missing key unit types for key roles that they just dont have ^^;
I dont play them but I've seen a lot gameplay vids with them. While they CAN be strong with the right player, they have some problems that, if the opponents know of and expoit it, they are ruined.


1. No setup team (means they cant hold points, no reliable suppression or ranged AV, no tactical play vs. mobbed factions like nids and orks) and no real suppression whatsoever (purgation needs to be in the face, which defeats its purpuse ^^;)

2. Slow moving AV, which means all vehicles (Except LR variants) easily outrun it! Psycannons can do so much, they need to be in range, but they are not designed for that role. Rhino... too squishy, predators eat it for dinner.

3. Cant really control the flow of combat, only via interceptors upgraded jump and BC can do anything. Purgtion needs to be too close, usually tied up before it can suppress. Again, painfully missing suppression or disrupt or control.

4. No vehicles much... aside of the Rhino, their only vehicle is the dread + LR late game. They dont have a fast and powerful tank like a Predator in mid game, which they really miss. LR Crusader is anti infantry only! Rhino blows up the second an AV team sneezes on it X)


Basically, the GK is a nice faction. But they just missing key elements to be successful. Most of the Faction War games and usualy 2v2, 3v3 they are struggling...