Map making questions

[Arbit]

Howdy.

If our resident map making experts would be so kind to help out the n00bs, I'd like to make this a map making question thread. Other n00bs, feel free to put your questions here too .

I'll have some more questions later, but let's start with this one:

Is there anyway to change the crushability of an object? Basically, I want to use an object as a wall but certain units (fatties like brocap, HT, CL, vehicles) insist on smashing said object. I've tried using the impassible terrain tool to draw an impassible zone extending a couple squares around the object but units can (and FREQUENTLY) clip the object while turning or walking by, which is frustrating to say the least.

[Indrid]

Best way is to surround it with BLOCK objects - using Impass tool leads to problems as you said. You can't change the cover type, block status or crush of an object for some reason. It leads to a lot of frustration when cover types seem to have been just arbitrarily chosen by Relic; giant pile of rubble? "Eh, light cover" decides Relic.

Just got to live with it and it becomes less of an issue as you become more familiar with all the assets.

@Wrex - the Worldbuilder works with Elite fine. Did you not notice all the new maps? Give it a go.

[MaxPower]

What Indrid said, for some weird reason u cant change the cover or crushability of an object. Afaik it was possible with the Worldbuilder from CoH though, which would be even weirder.

So the best solution would be either to use moveshotblockers or, use another object that has heavy crush or something alone the line.


Something that is bugging me, is how some objects block line of sight even though they are as big as a trashcan, while other stuff that is literally as big as a tank or even bigger dont block los. Yeah Reric logic...

[Arbit]

Indrid, MaxPower, thanks. I was worried I'd have to do something like that... but I'm finding I have to put the move/shot blockers pretty far away from the wall otherwise I get the same problem I have with the impass tool i.e. vehicles will still manage to touch the wall through the impassible area and make it explode. I guess I'm just going to have to live with crumbly walls. It's the building_wall_08 in the volcanic set that I'm having trouble with if you're curious.

Another question: is there any way to turn off shadows in the editor? The shadows are so dark I can't see where I'm placing stuff sometimes.

Wrex, start looking at the stuff in this thread that Castle made a while back:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=163

The worldbuilder is in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\dawn of war ii - retribution" assuming you installed it to the default location.

[MaxPower]

Another question: is there any way to turn off shadows in the editor? The shadows are so dark I can't see where I'm placing stuff sometimes.

U could either quick bake the lighting, which should lighten the shadows up a bit or u could change the sunlight in the atmosphere option => change time of day to north and there shouldnt be any shadows anymore.

[Castle]

Large template models (eg GUO, BB, even Dreadnoughts) will effectively 'reach across' a certain number of impassable squares and crush objects that are crush-able at all; unless an asset is of a full blocking type, heavy crush is the most resistant. Meaning only models like those listed above will crush such an object.

But I see you have figured out the complications. You could draw more impasse terrain around the object, but then it often looks odd and screws players up when they attempt to enter an area that looks passable but is not. You could 'sell' the impasse terrain with certain design, like making a big hole in the ground under those assets...that is somehow "uncovered" when a large model bumps the assets. This way players still understand that walking or driving in the area is understandably not gonna work.

As for cover...well there is a cover object that is not visible when the game starts, that can be placed inside cover assets/objects that will create heavy cover (green). Problem is that if the cover object is destroyed the invisible cover object still remains in the area. You could probably SCAR code removal of such an object when the parent cover type is crushed, but that would be a massive PITA I figure.

Best of luck, keep at it!

[Castle]

as for lightening/shadows: Max is right. About all you can do is quick bake or adjust various atmosphere settings and see how it goes. It takes some time to get used to what is what, so be sure to use London Duncan's guide, save your work and tinker a lot.

A full light bake can really help, but often takes as much as 10-20 minutes. Quick bake should lessen your shadows. However, I find light baking is the last thing to do per map build. So, once you are done with a certain degree of work and want to test the map in play, then you bake lighting ...before map baking, saving and packing finally.

Cheers

[Arbit]

Is it possible to make perfectly vertical walls out of terrain? I'm trying to use some of the facade objects (volcanic objects\building fragments\building_wall_06_facade) and I'm finding if I use the height setting tool to 90 (with zero feathering and 100 strength), then set some terrain to 100 height next to it, the cliffside I've just made actually has a slope. This causes terrain to protrude through the bottom of the facade pieces.

[Castle]

Hmmm, I would really need to see what you are talking about to be sure to help. Generally, I have no problem making vertical edges with height changes to terrain if needed. Also consider that blending objects and terrain is important, hard edges from objects or terrain will almost always look funny.

If you want to clear a 'slope' or sheer an edge, just use 'set value' at the ground level, then "clean/brush" away whatever is sticking out of the object.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

technically no, you end up with a 1 grid slope but if you stick the wall partway into the hill it looks fine. might be difficult with really thin walls but those were not intended to hide terrain differences.

[Arbit]

Castle, yeah, I tried using the "set height" tool but as Arbitor says it still makes a one-grid slope.



Nuclear Arbitor, yes, this is a very thin wall - one grid square at the top but it narrows down at the base. It's called a "facade" so I figured the piece was created to put on the front of a cliffside to make it look like a building. The piece also has an ugly-ass grainy texture on the back which also suggests to me that is supposed to fit up against terrain features. But, this one grid slope shows through the bottom.

It amazes me how many objects don't function the way they should. The facade piece I'm talking about doesn't block shots... why would you make a wall that doesn't block shots? There are columns that go with walls that make logical corner pieces, but the columns have light crush and the walls have heavy crush, so a CL walking by the corner will crush the column. And why would a massive column of stone have light crush anyway?!?! It's very frustrating. I guess I should just stick to the object sets that are used in existing maps so I know they'll friggin' work.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I think if you create terrain using the image import function it will make 90 degree walls... it's an idea for the next map anyway.

[Indrid]

Most support walls/facades do not block LoS. This is because DoW2 does not have a true LoS system like CoH2 has, so needs to account for infantry standing on the edge of platforms wanting to shoot down. If those support walls blocked shots, infantry would not be able to shoot off the edge or receive fire from below.

It's not ideal because it in turn means that fire can simply go through the walls and "into" whatever platform it is supporting (like the SW of Typhon Arena) but when you think about the above issue it makes sense given the lack of true LoS.

In most cases you will want to leave the lack of LoS block as it is to allow the exchange of fire - because it is expected behaviour from players, but you can always use move_shot_blockers if you want or have a specific design in mind.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

huh, it sounds like it is indeed intended to be used as a facade. i would suggest moving it out from the terrain as far as you need and putting a cap of some kind on top. you could also place a cliff object and place the facade against that, depending on how flat the cliff object is.

[Arbit]

Arise!

Is there any way to move a splat to the top? e.g. I've placed a power cable splat spline and I want to add some new splats beneath the cable. Am I just going to have to redraw the cable?

Yes, I am still working on a 1v1 map! For like a year now! But I'm making real progress!

Obviously there's a lot of stuff that's just floating around that's going to be deleted.

[Indrid]

Select multiple splats and use Page Up/Down keys to change their respective ordering.

[Arbit]

That's a good tip (didn't know that), but it looks like that works for splats but not for a splat spline and a splat, or even two splat splines.

It looks like new splat splines drop to the bottom of the pile, oddly enough.

[Indrid]

Oh yeah sorry, read it too fast did not see the "spline" there. Splines are annoying like that.

[Black Relic]

*splat* lol. I Envy you guy who can make maps. I tried and that's it, tried. Attempted to my a remake of the dow1 map Blood Shed Alley for dow2.

Maybe someone can do the thing in which i have failed? As in make blood shed alley??!?!?!? Id love you!

And maybe a good tutorial would be awesome if you have the time. And not that shity pdf relic provides.

[Arbit]

Castle helpfully made this Google Drive folder that contains London Duncan's map making guide. It's a great tutorial.

edit: LOLZ I meant to provide the link

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=163

there you go

[Arbit]

Does anyone know how I can open a pre-existing map?

[Indrid]

Extract 000_multiplayer.sga from GameAssets\Archives, this will give you all the map files.

Then just find the mapname.scenario of the map you want, and rename it to mapname.wb-scenario. Then take that mapname.wb-scenario along with mapname.info, mapname.layers, mapname.scenariomaker, mapname.xml, mapname_ID.scar and paste them all into whatever folder you use for your map files (assets\maps\pvp usually). You can now open/save/bake the .wb-scenario in WorldBuilder like any other map you are working on.

If you want to open a map added in Elite Mod just grab it from Elite_beta\Data\maps\pvp and rename/copy the files as above.

[Arbit]

I've extracted the files as you've said, but I don't see all the files that you've listed.

I have
mapname.info
mapname.scenario
mapname.scenariomaker
mapname_fe.dds
mapname_id.scar
mapname_mpa.dds

but no
mapname.layers
mapname.xml

The Elite_beta\Data\maps\pvp files have the same extensions. When I rename the .scenario file to .wb-scenario and copy everything over and try to open it anyway the worldbuilder crashes. Any ideas?

OK, nm. For a while there I couldn't even open my own maps, and apparently numerous panicked restarts were needed before the worldbuilder would cooperate. It makes the .layers and .xml files when you save and bake.

Once again, thanks very much!

[Arbit]

OK, got another issue. I've downloaded the effects and can get them to appear in the worldbuilder but they don't show when I play the map. Any idea what's going on?

EDIT welp it's due to detail settings. I haven't pinned down which setting exactly but at least I know I'm implementing the effects correctly.

[Arbit]

Is LondonDuncan's guide still up to date on how to archive/package a map? What folder will people need to drop it into in order to play it on the latest Elite beta?

edit: so as the questions above indicate, I'm getting very close on releasing a beta. Here are a couple screenshots to give you an idea-





I spent epic amounts of time on this, so when I release it feedback will be required welcome.

[Arbit]

I gotta put out another call for help here. Can I archive this into an SGA file so people can just drop it into a folder, or do I need to create an installer so it will plop the various .layers/.dds/.whatever files into the correct folders?

It's ready for testing. I just need to get it to people in a usable state.

[Indrid]

Personally I just follow what Elite does with its maps, and build the file structure with regards to Data\Maps\pvp and Data\ui\textures.

You don't need a fancy installer for it, the user just needs to drop the Data folder you make and merge it with their own and everything drops into the right place if you do it right. Just look at how the other maps are setup with regards to their loading images etc and follow the same naming/directory conventions. It's not hard to make a simple installer with WinRAR or something though either.

Just contact me on Steam if ya get stuck.

[Castle]

File structure building is fine, but messy for testing it out quick.

There are numerous SGA archiving tools... did you miss my content pack posting awhile back? Includes all the tools you need, plus the mapping guide put out by London Duncan.

Not sure where the link is at the moment, but for now just search out 'Dekhranic SGA Archive GUI'. Or use Copes Mod tool... though a bit longer and heavier for packing it works great. Also, London Duncan's guide instructs you how to pack maps manually via the DOW exe.

Let me know when you have this ready, would be happy to test this out and give ya some pointers; preview shots look pretty good.

At this point I have spent more than two years now working on Relic World Builder mapping skills. Hit me up if you need anything

[Castle]

ah yes, here be the link:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

[Indrid]

He has posted the map here Castle for you to try.

[Castle]

He has posted the map here Castle for you to try.

thanks!