Smoke Shells

[Helios]

I have to agree, here, the Spotters have 3 (2 of which can be used at the same time) abilities to counter setup teams and what they do is very effective in shutting this unit down. But the spotters shut them down in a different way than jump troops do. They disable instead of killing them off really fast. Let's say for a second that jump troops like ASM did a pitiful 3 dps in melee. You would still use them because they can get in and tie them up and make that unit totally useless. The setup team wouldn't be in any real danger any time soon, but it is still effectively out of the battle. But both would still be hard counters

As far as soft and hard counters go... I don't really look to this game for a hard and fast definition for those. I would say a hard counter would be something like pikemen/spearmen in medieval RTS's like AoE or LOTR BFME against cavalry. A hard counter does tons of damage to what it's supposed to counter while a soft counter would be something that takes next to no damage or zero damage to what it counters but can't kill it quickly, like an air unit with really weak ground attack being used to defend against ground-only units.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

hard counters are effective enough to remove the threat on their own, regardless of how they do it. soft counters require quantity in order to do the same thing.

[sk4zi]

a lascan is a hardcounter to a dread but cant win on its own ...

[Nuclear Arbitor]

true. i'm not sure how i can rephrase my definition, especially without getting long winded, but i still stand by it.

[Torpid]

It's just about cost effectiveness basically. It doesn't need to be able to absolutely shut it down and win on its own. For example a fully upgraded guardsmen squad is a hard counter to tzeentch marines because economically they are the far superior unit. A lascannon is a hard counter to walkers because for about 25% of the price they effectively totally negate the walker from entering a certain part of the map without support from other units.

[sk4zi]

It's just about cost effectiveness basically. It doesn't need to be able to absolutely shut it down and win on its own. For example a fully upgraded guardsmen squad is a hard counter to tzeentch marines because economically they are the far superior unit. A lascannon is a hard counter to walkers because for about 25% of the price they effectively totally negate the walker from entering a certain part of the map without support from other units.

aaaand *drumroll* a Atrillery Spotter is a hard counter to a setupteam because

...they effectively totally negate the...

devastor to do anything but flee in an engagement.

other question..

420/120 is 4x 325/30 ?
aha ... strange math.

so plz see that i have complied allready. but plz dont give untrue arguments to proof your opinion which is also very subjective.

Ol' reliable is not a set up team counter. Set up team is a catachan counter, you got it backwards.

can you explain this please?
so it might be that a devastor win without taking damage versus catas? not rly...

[Asmon]

Ol' reliable is not a set up team counter. Set up team is a catachan counter, you got it backwards.

can you explain this please?
so it might be that a devastor win without taking damage versus catas? not rly...

Simple : You cannot force off a devastator squad with catachans. But you can force off catachans with a devastator squad.

Who said that one has not to take any damage?

[sk4zi]

Ol' reliable is not a set up team counter. Set up team is a catachan counter, you got it backwards.

can you explain this please?
so it might be that a devastor win without taking damage versus catas? not rly...

Simple : You cannot force off a devastator squad with catachans. But you can force off catachans with a devastator squad.

Who said that one has not to take any damage?

so what about ol´reliable into melee ? that works and thats really dangerous for the devas.
if you dont get into melee in time. no problem you have tha shotgun blast also
plz stop denying facts. i know you know it.

[Kvek]

so what about ol´reliable into melee ? that works and thats really dangerous for the devas.
if you dont get into melee in time. no problem you have tha shotgun blast also
plz stop denying facts. i know you know it.

What the fuck ?
So you oil'd them, now considering you weren't at least in the middle of the arc you will not get close to them till they setup, and also if there is an another unit (tac flamer etc) those cats will be just forced off, and i don't think you will leave a devastator somewhere alone.

[sk4zi]

yaya other unit ... blabla

then a hero comes then another and then its an army who hardcounteres the poor spotters.

the fuck
i dont care what you think.

master skazi has spoken.

[Kvek]

yaya other unit ... blabla

then a hero comes then another and then its an army who hardcounteres the poor spotters.

the fuck
i dont care what you think.

master skazi has spoken.

the fuck did just...

[crazyman64335]

yaya other unit ... blabla

then a hero comes then another and then its an army who hardcounteres the poor spotters.

the fuck
i dont care what you think.

master skazi has spoken.

wtf are you even talking about dude, catachans get forced off by devs, go ahead and try it. use your ol reliable and try to force melee after that, your catachans will get shredded. have you ever even tried this?

[Dark Riku]

wtf are you even talking about dude, catachans get forced off by devs, go ahead and try it. use your ol reliable and try to force melee after that, your catachans will get shredded. have you ever even tried this?

It's actually a viable thing to do if it's just the devs. Old reliable, move in then shotgunblast. Or if the devs are up against a wall the old reliable won't push them back.

[Torpid]

wtf are you even talking about dude, catachans get forced off by devs, go ahead and try it. use your ol reliable and try to force melee after that, your catachans will get shredded. have you ever even tried this?

It's actually a viable thing to do if it's just the devs. Old reliable, move in then shotgunblast. Or if the devs are up against a wall the old reliable won't push them back.

Yeah and it will be barrel of fun chasing those devs eternally while tacs with flamers kill your catachans in 2 seconds, yet your GM take 2minutes to kill the tacs.

[Asmon]

so what about ol´reliable into melee ? that works and thats really dangerous for the devas.
if you dont get into melee in time. no problem you have tha shotgun blast also
plz stop denying facts. i know you know it.

Dude you stopped being funny a long while ago. Now just go l2p.

[sk4zi]

wtf are you even talking about dude, catachans get forced off by devs, go ahead and try it. use your ol reliable and try to force melee after that, your catachans will get shredded. have you ever even tried this?

It's actually a viable thing to do if it's just the devs. Old reliable, move in then shotgunblast. Or if the devs are up against a wall the old reliable won't push them back.

Yeah and it will be barrel of fun chasing those devs eternally while tacs with flamers kill your catachans in 2 seconds, yet your GM take 2minutes to kill the tacs.

maybe but we dont talk about catachans vs 2 squads, right?
then you can continue with sentinel stomp etc. etc.

ofc some other troops make a difference

Dude you stopped being funny a long while ago. Now just go l2p.

np you are also not very funny.

so back to topic plz.
its doesn´t actually matter what catachans do when we talk about Spotters.

[Torpid]

There's nothing to taaaaalk about.

[Nurland]

Okay this thread has gotten way off topic. Stick to the topic or stfu.

[Toilailee]

I like pink normal fairy troll balloons.


That's all I have to say. --->