CSM EW AC. Idea, reasons and video inside.

[Forestradio]

What I don't understand is that people are declaring something in a patch OP BEFORE THE PATCH EVEN CAME OUT.

We're in a beta. That means testing things. If Raptors turn into an unstoppable melee unit in T2 because look they got an ability, then Caeltos can remove it.

Just wait and see how things turn out before you start complaining. Is that really so hard?

P.S. I'm one of those hated people who mains Space Marines as my faction.

[Torpid]

Thus comes the problem regarding the 'boy who cried wolf'; when a person whose race is actually UP constantly moans and whines about their race being UP, one must assume he is simply whining because he wants his race to be better and essentially is bias, yet he isn't, because his race is legitimately UP.

I think people tend to make comparisons between SM and other races because SM sort of are the default race. I mean they just have a bit of everything. They have tanky units, damage dealing units, arty, suppression, jump units, walkers, transports, tanks, SHI and a versatile set of heroes, all they lack is dedicated melee.

Furthermore I do think the general consensus is that SM are fairly well balanced within their own right and all their units fulfill their roles quite well; where they don't it's rarely an issue with the SM unit, but rather an issue with the units in the other races. Maybe this isn't the case, but I find it odd that I would view balance this way when I don't main SM if it wasn't true.



Also expecting courtesy from high level RTS players is absolutely lulz. RTS games are renowned for the deep bitterness of all the grumpy high level players. Stomping around in their bubbles of narcissism, eccentricity and megalomania.

[Asmon]

As a matter of fact, it is possible to predict whether something is gonna be OP before it even goes live. Not implying that it's the case with the incoming Raptors changes, but they do seem strong indeed.

Raptors still are an underused unit, especially in 1v1, and we'll need quite a lot of replays before one can tell how good they perform. Anyone can submit replays and highlight what is relevant to Raptors within. I'm waiting for the patch and a bunch of replays featuring them.

[Dark Riku]

Panda don't take things out of context. Post you are referring to.
I didn't feel addressed when he said that nor did he state that the quotation you speak of was an example of his said frustration. He, on the other hand, gave somewhat of an explanation to that quote.

[Bahamut]

Is this really what the DOW community has come to? Just declaring what you believe is op/up as fact, cheap and hardly veiled attacks on each other, and saying that anyone who disagrees with you is basically lying? From what I've read in the previous threads I can safely say that there are a few, prolific writers here who never change their mind and constantly believe their race is underpowered and that any other race getting buffed without their race getting one too is unfair.

I'm not gonna take part in this discussion but as a third party i'll tell you Panda, that you have done the exact same thing you're criticizing several times throughout this thread.

[Codex]

Alright let's all settle down here. One minute we're in the realm of facts, the next it's all personal and such. Let's keep it to the facts since there's actually a good discussion going on.

[Tex]

Raffa, I stopped posting in this thread as soon as I saw raptors are getting some love. Mission accomplished. Wasn't what I wanted, but I will take it. Anything is better than being dead weight in T2.

[Black Relic]

Just a quick question about this ability the raptors have. How much would the energy cost be? Since a jump and then this disruptive ability right afterwards seems a bit much. If anyone knows post please. Want an idea on how often this ability will be used. Since if the cost is some what high say 55 energy, will make players think whether they want to disrupt melee units, or suppress ranged squads. That will change as they level up though.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Raffa, I stopped posting in this thread as soon as I saw raptors are getting some love. Mission accomplished. Wasn't what I wanted, but I will take it. Anything is better than being dead weight in T2.

But the purpose of this thread wasn't talk about Raptors....

Just a quick question about this ability the raptors have. How much would the energy cost be? Since a jump and then this disruptive ability right afterwards seems a bit much. If anyone knows post please. Want an idea on how often this ability will be used. Since if the cost is some what high say 55 energy, will make players think whether they want to disrupt melee units, or suppress ranged squads. That will change as they level up though.

Jump cost 65 energy, Daemonic Fury cost 40 energy.

I love the new Raptors' changes. Chaos players still needs to manage very well the high energy cost abilities and overabuse of the benefits of workshipp/wargear to save them some energy, but at least they don't need to buy such a situacional and low efficient upgrade (Daemon Maul) to use the Daemonic Fury ability.

Still IMHO are some things which needs a look about Raptors, like their relative no-scale in T3 (except if you buy the meltas against vehicles), the high energy cost Jump in later Tiers, the damage type of the ability, which is highly reduced AFAIK against units with Melee resistance, the low radius of the ability or the power of the knockback/knockback domino....

[Tex]

Or the fact that the ability is impossibly hard to use in a brawl. As it stands the ability is only useable against single unit entities that are actively engaging your raptors.

Don't believe me? Try it...

[Black Relic]

Idk if any one has stated this yet so here it goes.

I am going to start this off with a short story. I was changing some stuff in my mod, more specifically the CSM AC when i came to a revelation. I was changing his melee skill to 70 to see what would happen when I remembered the MoK upgrade.

As everyone knows, it increases the health, speed and gives the squad power weapons and pistols. Also what makes them is the added 10 to their melee skill.

That plus 10 the their melee skill also goes for the CSM AC. if the AC had a default MS of 70 and is upgraded with MoK, his melee skill will be 80. I don't know if you can make a requirement to change that but there might be a reason why Av shouldn't get his MS raised to 70. I do like my idea for the charge since it doesn't really seem to break the unit, from my understanding. The post is on this thread somewhere. Between this or my suggestion for an ability idk what else there is. The ability (just a reminder if anyone doesn't remember) would increased the squads dps by 25% or so but they toke increased dps as well. Thoughts or suggestions? Eager to hear what people can cook up instead of higher melee skill now.

[Lulgrim]

There are several ways to exclude AC from the +10 melee skill.