Paladins

[saltychipmunk]

thing is that their t2 counter part .. the purifiers don't really hold up well against units that are beefier then they are . (part of the reason why people just get interceptors)

nobs , terminators .. the seer council will all absolutely obliterate purifiers , which mind you should not be all that big of a surprise , t2 vs t3 units we are talking about.

If you want a unit that can tie up those beef cake melee in t3 , you are gona need terminators.

OR you will just have to accept the fact that you will either bleed a fair bit every engagement or will have to do some heavy micro magic to nullify such heavy hitting units.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

With the changes to the Paladins/GK Terminators incinerator change, IMHO Paladins still have 2 issues: their reinforce cost and the passive aura.

The reinforce cost it's a bit too low, and it should be increased. Maybe not at the level of the SM Terminators reinforce cost, but a bit less. At the moment, and with all the GK buffs and support it's really difficult to drop models and even if you drop one, the reinforce cost it's only slightly superior to a Purifier one, which models are much more killable.

The hp regeneration aura it's really strong, and don't "fit" very well with the Paladins offensive role. Again, combined with the GK buffs and high hp low model squads increases too much the power of the GK snowball effect.

[saltychipmunk]

but removing the spike damage on the incinerator kind of removes their ranged bite, thus making them much easier to kite and murder with plasma damage , not to mention how extremely easy it is to down them with movement control abilites


like subjugation , chains of torment , the wse root webs , the many inquisitor movement control abilities

sure the aura is great and all , but it doesnt change the fact that the gk t3 is essentially a one note affair populated by slow high hp units that cant retreat.

[Nurland]

The high burst damage incinerators were quite retarded. They are not supposed to have ranged bite imo. GK Termies are a melee unit. The weapon upgrades are meant to make kiting them less fun/give them some utility. Though normal their ranged dps is quite ridiculous 24dps piercing per model (other melee termies don't have a ranged attack). Their incinerator does more damage than PC Bile Spewer (it is also cheaper tha BS) and has DoT so it is not exactly a lacluster ranged weapon even without omgwtf high burst damage..

[saltychipmunk]

Oh indeed yes, they should not have the bite, but it does expose a problem that the incinerators were hiding, that gk t3 is very much one dimensional


also gk dont get a 100% ranged terminator option , which i would have loved , but it explains why the gk terminators have the ranged dps

[Kithrixx]

Oh indeed yes, they should not have the bite, but it does expose a problem that the incinerators were hiding, that gk t3 is very much one dimensional


also gk dont get a 100% ranged terminator option , which i would have loved , but it explains why the gk terminators have the ranged dps

What would a GK ranged terminator option even be? They wield their ranged weapons with one hand, so... dual wielded Psycannons for everyone?

[Forestradio]

Oh indeed yes, they should not have the bite, but it does expose a problem that the incinerators were hiding, that gk t3 is very much one dimensional


also gk dont get a 100% ranged terminator option , which i would have loved , but it explains why the gk terminators have the ranged dps

What would a GK ranged terminator option even be? They wield their ranged weapons with one hand, so... dual wielded Psycannons for everyone?

Might solve the issue of predators and other tanks in T3.

(yes, this is in jest. Dual pyscannon terminators would be OP as hell)

[ThongSong]

make a ranged GK terminator squad have a shoulder mounted lascannon as the lead member and the supporting members carry heavy wristmounted psycannons

and let their melee weapons be normal melee damage daemon hammers so they will get trumped by dedicated melee squads

HECK. YES.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

What about to give to Paladins a "ranged" upgrade, with a potent psycannon and an damage buff on their stormbolters but with a melee damage decrease?

Something like the Chaos Terminators with Autocannon.

[David-CZ]

Do psycannons and autocannons have the same damage type? I was just wondering what is more effective against certain stuff. For example autocannon will most likely by more effective against infantry. But when shooting a single target, I'm not so sure.

[Indrid]

Autocannons are autocannon_pvp, Psycannons are explosive_pvp.

explosive_pvp is better since you're doing full damage to all targets and extra to building_light.

autocannon_pvp does 75% to vehicles and 75% to commanders but slightly more to HQs (hurrah?) and gets the same bonus as explosive_pvp to building_light (gens).

EDIT: Dreadnought/Termie autcannons, ty Nurland.

[Nurland]

Set up team autocannons, tank autocannons and psycannons have the same dmg type (explosive). Terminator Autocannon and Dread Autocannon both do autocannon damage type.

[Indrid]

^ Ah yes.

[saltychipmunk]

well that was a silly little tangent we went on , to behonest apart from a flamer nerf

there really arent any changes That I would make to gk in regards to terminators,

Gk just needs a non walker , non terminator option

[Torpid]

GK needs a lot of things to be truly balanced it seems, like proper artillery, an actual t3 vehicle, a dedicated melee counter, a set-up team AV and suppression option, however I think the whole mission of GK is make them balanced without being forced to give them the same stuff as every other race...

[Forestradio]

Suggestion.

In the Chaos Rising Campaign, there are several terminator stormbolters you can find that were "gifted" to the Blood Ravens by the Grey Knights.

Perhaps the Grey Knight terminators should return the favor and "gift" themselves a few sets of Cyclone Missile Launchers?

[Flash]

interesting, but again too expensive and with the putting all the eggs in one basket of terminators approach.

[Ar-Aamon]

Well according to the Codex of dawnofwar.info Terminator Psycannons and Purgation Psycannons should deal the same amount of damage. But its a proven fact that they don't. Terminator Psycannon are way weaker than their alleged twin.

[Faultron]

Well according to the Codex of dawnofwar.info Terminator Psycannons and Purgation Psycannons should deal the same amount of damage. But its a proven fact that they don't. Terminator Psycannon are way weaker than their alleged twin.

dont look just 1 stat, this game is deeper
the dps is equal but they have different weapon not exactly the same, terminators have a super modded version:)

also dont expect from a tier 1 unit doing same as t3 (in general)
full stats:
http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weapon. ... _psycannon
http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weapon. ... terminator

[Broodwich]

A ranged AV terminator squad similar to missile dred would be cool. Should mount them on gk terms though, not paladins considering their current aura would just make them rangedbloblololol

[Lulgrim]

Well according to the Codex of dawnofwar.info Terminator Psycannons and Purgation Psycannons should deal the same amount of damage. But its a proven fact that they don't. Terminator Psycannon are way weaker than their alleged twin.

Uhh proven how...?

[Ar-Aamon]

I have tested it. The results have been posted in the Grey Knight topic:

I had the feeling that the psycannons of the Terminators/Paladins aren’t as good as the Purgation’s one.

So I tested it today and I was quite surprised to see their performance. To sum up: Don’t get them at all unless you want to make the squad weaker. It’s a vast of requisition and power. Their stormbolters do way more damage and the AV is so marginal (not even 4 dps) that is hasn't any effect on the battlefield.

First I let one level 1 Purgation Marine go against tics with AC. It took 44 sec to kill them. Next were KCSM with Champ. It took 1 min 50 sec to wipe them. Next was the Crusher and he stood for 55 sec. All were level 1 like the Purgation Marine.

After I did the same with 1 Termis/Paladin and here are the numbers. For the tics it took 1 min 37 sec as they stood close together (splash damage) and 2 min 36 sec as they aren’t very close. The Bloodcrusher stood for 2 mins and 41 sec. And the test with the KCSM I had to abort because it took annoyingly long. The stopwatch showed 4 mins as the KCSM lost their 1’000’s hp.

Very strange cause they should be the same according to the codex. Any idea what happened here?

[Nurland]

http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weapon. ... _psycannon
http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weapon. ... terminator

Ar-Aamon: These were posted on the previous page but apparently you did not read them. The damage has a range modifier similar to set up teams.

[Lulgrim]

Range modifier should have no effect when short/med/long/distant ranges are all the same, but maybe this causes 0.3x damage at all ranges beyond 0 anyway? Worth testing at least.

[Nurland]

Hmmm. That would explain Ar-Aamon's results.

[Ar-Aamon]

http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weapon.php?wpn=gk_psycannon
http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weapon. ... terminator

Ar-Aamon: These were posted on the previous page but apparently you did not read them. The damage has a range modifier similar to set up teams.

Yup I overread it, sorry my bad.

This explains my experience with Termi Psycannon. Sadly it makes them very bad at hunting down vehicles.

edit: Ok I have tested it again. Even from short range they don't preform better. Roughly 4 dps.

[Lulgrim]

That would be about 30% of the intended DPS, suits the range multiplier thing.

[Ar-Aamon]

It looks like. If this can be changed so that it works like intended, psycannons will be a valuable AV. Hope you can fix this.

[Dark Riku]

I it just on termi psycannon? Because when I used paladins a couple of days ago the psycannon on them really did some work on the enemy vehicle and eventually destroyed it.

[Ar-Aamon]

Uhm I think on both. Today I tested it with a Paladin psycannon. Are you sure that the psycannon did the work? Maybe it was a delayed hit of a daemonhammer...