Dawn of War Codex

How about making the Malantai unable to move as long as any of its AOE powers are on? Like the Librarian with his Force Barrier?

Rataxas wrote:Way to nerf nids :

Hormas / Termas are faster , cheaper , better than lets say shootas , you need to buy nob leader + BS on shootas what makes them 45 power cost ! + rest ! + they bleed , + they does not have synaps in T2.
- Economic aspects of nids 2 , if as a nid player i will get horma , terma terma i got no upkeep penalyty ( or do i ? but not big ? ) think if i will keep my popcap less than 30/100 my army wont suffer on upkeep ?

hormas lose to sluggas, termas lose to shootas. Yes, lets make nids totally useless

- Zoantrop , Heal for all army , 2 zoans can easly heal faster than HQ ? Stun on vehs almost without cooldown , and they do not deploy to fire. I would lower the heal rate , and give them deploy time before shoot same as dcanon or devplasma.

Heal synapse doesnt stack, is a freaking syanpse. Since when they stun?

- Warriors BS , the problem with them is that they dont have deploy time , can fire 360 degree and have HI armor which makes them harder to kill for races without plasma / power melee in T1. I would change that giving them deploy time before shoot , lower their HP if they will get BS on around 600-700 , HB is around 625 hp ?

They also don't supress the whole fire arc like normal setup squads do and they have less than 38 range. They only supress in a radius 6 of where the shot landed. All setup teams have heavy armor as well, devs, havocs even shuriken platform has heavy armor

- Warrior leaders in T3 should be removed. They are not needed. Nids T1 units already got boost from synaptic units and they can hold their ground pretty easly in T3.

They did!, lulgrim's preview of beta 9 has them removed

- Tyrant guard should do less dmg on veh armor , unit that cos 400 / 55 can easly fight with dred for 450 / 120, and almost win.

It does, heavy melee does 50% to vehicle armor while it does 100% to super heavy armor

Bahamut wrote:

Rataxas wrote:Way to nerf nids :

Hormas / Termas are faster , cheaper , better than lets say shootas , you need to buy nob leader + BS on shootas what makes them 45 power cost ! + rest ! + they bleed , + they does not have synaps in T2.
- Economic aspects of nids 2 , if as a nid player i will get horma , terma terma i got no upkeep penalyty ( or do i ? but not big ? ) think if i will keep my popcap less than 30/100 my army wont suffer on upkeep ?

hormas lose to sluggas, termas lose to shootas. Yes, lets make nids totally useless

Shootas lose to hormas, sluggas lose to termas.
hormas are a anti-ranged squad, while termas are an anti melee...

Rataxas wrote: - Warrior leaders in T3 should be removed. They are not needed. Nids T1 units already got boost from synaptic units and they can hold their ground pretty easly in T3.

They will be removed next update a change I can only approve of.

Bahamut wrote:

- Zoantrop , Heal for all army , 2 zoans can easly heal faster than HQ ? Stun on vehs almost without cooldown , and they do not deploy to fire. I would lower the heal rate , and give them deploy time before shoot same as dcanon or devplasma.

Heal synapse doesnt stack, is a freaking syanpse. Since when they stun?

Since forever? It's that snare that gets of cooldown as soon as the snare wears off. It also functions as a kb tool on infantry which most people seem to forget.

KB is KB, stun is stun. Can't mix the 2 of them. Stun works on termies, weapon KB doesnt. Stun doesnt disrupt retreat, KB does

Warp blast slows for 10 secs, 15 secs Cooldown, 30 energy and 100 explosive damage. I think the energy cost can go up to 40 so a zoanthrope can only cast a max of 3 shots before running out of energy. Can't ask for tyranid AV to be worse that it is, even GK has better AV

Kvek wrote:Shootas lose to hormas, sluggas lose to termas.
hormas are a anti-ranged squad, while termas are an anti melee...

Because shootas can't supress on the right?, which also works against ranged units :/

Or sluggas can't cook termas with their burnas, 2 flamers of 5.5 dps each is not something you discard


Btw, i'm also happy about t3 warriors being removed, they really didn't make sense. Also, endless swarm should really increase the pop cap and upkeep of the squad, i would say that's totally fair

Bahamut wrote:

Kvek wrote:Shootas lose to hormas, sluggas lose to termas.
hormas are a anti-ranged squad, while termas are an anti melee...

Because shootas can't supress on the right?, which also works against ranged units :/

Or sluggas can't cook termas with their burnas, 2 flamers of 5.5 dps each is not something you discard


Btw, i'm also happy about t3 warriors being removed, they really didn't make sense. Also, endless swarm should really increase the pop cap and upkeep of the squad, i would say that's totally fair

Well, you know you don't have to blob your termas like crazy, and you can also snare then back off a litlte bit and fuck these sluggas...

and even if they suppress, the hormas will still be able to tie them up, and big shootas are 20 power, while hormas can do the job w/o AGs

theorykrafting ftw

Because shootas can't supress on the right?, which also works against ranged units :/

But they lose damage output greatly when perform that ability. And the strong side of the crippling poison is that it doesn't affect damage output at all.

We're going to create problems if we directly compare units but nonetheless Kvek is right in what he says, termagants beat sluggas harder than shoota beat hormagaunts, AWD is nice and all but it doesn't do damage while it is active and costs red, crippling poison is far superior, not to mention hormgaunts have higher speed, damage and a leap into combat to rip up those shootas than sluggas do all this for a cheaper price/upkeep/bleed. Nids win in such a simple scenario. Of course orks have greater range and shoota with nobs/loota support will win the firefights, but this sort of comparison is a waste of time as now we have to bring in heroes, zoanthropes, deff dreads, etc.

The underlying issue at hand seems to be that for their upkeep gaunts do a bloody good job at combat throughout all the tiers with or without synapse support and endless swarm only exacerbates that.

GK has better AV than tyranids, are you kidding me? I'de take a venom brood over a lascannon on most days, that FOTM is fantastic since it stops jump squads from being able to single-handedly take away the majority of your av potential, not to mention TG/AG wars naturally counter walkers and are very fundamental parts of tyranid builds and if they aren't then zoanthropes certainly will be, which also are very good AV. Hell, genes even do significant damage to a walker more concerned with tying up the venom brood. Nids have great AV.

Snare is not stun which also isn't knockback. Zoanthropes focused blast snares vehicles and knocks back infantry.

I fibd no issue with there av. Iy just makes no sense.to have hormas running around tier 3 wth a sarge that bumps em to over 2k hp while cultists are running around at lvl 4 and still honestly died retaryed amounts. The warrior models need to be removed as they are. But if u want to work them in again at a later poibt u need too add progression for other starting units to keep them viable at the same time.

Bahamut wrote:KB is KB, stun is stun. Can't mix the 2 of them. Stun works on termies, weapon KB doesnt. Stun doesnt disrupt retreat, KB does

What are you talking about...? Zoa can snare vehicles or can knockback infantry with the same ability. Knockback does NOT work on retreat. Only domino does.

@ [TLV]Soul_Drinkers: T3 Leaders are being removed next update!
Can everyone please stop posting useless stuff about them please?

Rataxas claimed Zoanthrope's healing syanpse stacked and that they had a stun

I asked since when

Rikku quoted my answer, and said "since forever"

I clarified that stun is different than KB. KB works better vs pre-retreating unit than stun. If ASM had stun when they landed and stormboyz had KB when they landed things would be alot different

There's something called chronology and reading, try it!

Also, crap now sluggas/shottas are inferior to termas and hormas . At best, boys lose to gaunts under syanpse while the boys are focusing the gaunts, all you need to do is get rid of syanpse creatures and bye bye nids, orks don't have that weakness.

Do the lab, vanilla sluggas/shootas beat vanilla hormas/termas, same after upgrades. It's not until t2 specialized synapses that gaunts will beat boyz, but then again, "focus the warriors" is the prime thing to remember

Bahamut wrote:
Also, crap now sluggas/shottas are inferior to termas and hormas . At best, boys lose to gaunts under syanpse while the boys are focusing the gaunts, all you need to do is get rid of syanpse creatures and bye bye nids, orks don't have that weakness.

Do the lab, vanilla sluggas/shootas beat vanilla hormas/termas, same after upgrades. It's not until t2 specialized synapses that gaunts will beat boyz, but then again, "focus the warriors" is the prime thing to remember

Vanilla shootas will never beat vanilla hormas, sluggas will get be half dead before they reach termas and then they will be kited...
AG Hormas>upgraded shootas.
Upgraded termas>upgraded sluggas...

And btw, if you get a BSWB warrior squad, you counter fully upgraded shootas and sluggas, so unless you have a stormboy squad (which is going to get annihilated by termas hero and hormas) you are pretty much dead, and getting lootas is a pretty bad choice vs nids "cough" zoans "cough"

you are pretty much dead, and getting lootas is a pretty bad choice vs nids "cough" zoans "cough"

Bless you... Managed to kill a seahorse with my infiltrated lootas yesterday.

And btw, if you get a BSWB warrior squad, you counter fully upgraded shootas and sluggas, so unless you have a stormboy squad

Oh, yeah if your opponent is a complete noob.

The tyranids are too strong in your eyes. In fact they have the worst t1 in the game. And they become really strong in t2. I would gladly explain why if you are interested.

Sub_Zero wrote:

you are pretty much dead, and getting lootas is a pretty bad choice vs nids "cough" zoans "cough"

Bless you... Managed to kill a seahorse with my infiltrated lootas yesterday.

And btw, if you get a BSWB warrior squad, you counter fully upgraded shootas and sluggas, so unless you have a stormboy squad

Oh, yeah if your opponent is a complete noob.

The tyranids are too strong in your eyes. In fact they have the worst t1 in the game. And they become really strong in t2. I would gladly explain why if you are interested.

Well, you counter one shoota :S i will have to edit the post later :L

Worst t1? They currently have the best t1 in the game right now. Need to look at who ur.playing before u make claims like that.

I think Orks vs Nids is a very balanced match-up both in team games and 1v1. From my experience if either race gets a tech advantage over the other they get to dictate the fights and usually win. Sluggas and Shootas can become much stronger than Termas and Hormas but have to invest quite a lot in upgrades to gain that advantage.

Stranglers are strong but cost a lot and the Warriors are squishy, Shootas can easily take them out, just don't bunch them up so both squads can be suppressed by the stranglershot. To suppress a charging Slugga boy mob you need to target ground.

I do think Endless Swarm should affect upkeep, you can field 30 Gaunts and a Zoan for 32 pop, that can't be right.

AG Warriors can't beat any of the walkers. They're not supposed to either, that's what Tyrant Guard are for. Speaking of which, one upgraded Slugga boy squad will deal a lot of damage to a Tyrant Guard, and two will kill one if it doesn't enter Shieldwall or gets really lucky with special attacks.

Sub_Zero wrote:The tyranids are too strong in your eyes. In fact they have the worst t1 in the game. And they become really strong in t2. I would gladly explain why if you are interested.

I didn't want to get involved but Nids T1 is amongst the best.

I know u dont like to call one race the best or anything but atm in overall t1 utility and staying power tyranids are the best.hands down

Dark Riku wrote:

Sub_Zero wrote:The tyranids are too strong in your eyes. In fact they have the worst t1 in the game. And they become really strong in t2. I would gladly explain why if you are interested.

I didn't want to get involved but Nids T1 is amongst the best.

mmm eldar, chaos and ork t1 is better. SM, IG, GK i'm not too sure which is better

Ooohkay let's close this party for a while.