Dawn of War Codex

I like the shield granting KB immunity with the axe idea. I too can't find much use for the axe. It's only useful vs chaos it seems.

I also think KB immunity on shield will be a good start to make the axe more useful.

Tex wrote:Been using the axe of mechanicum lately. Its in a very weird spot. Only way I can make it even remotely useful is to use it as a counter initiation tool. In any other role it is vastly outperformed by the other options. I'm really starting to think that a repair bonus would be a good reason for buying this thing.

I feel that it's bionics that is counter-initiation tool primarily. Axe feels like it's just there for the cases when you just can't stay away from melee, and full set of "melee build" is just too costly for something that is realistically just a fallback option. Even if you don't go 3 piece gear, forcing said bionics doesn't do it any good either.

Broodwich wrote:Shield granting kb immunity?

Only when axe is bought?
Honestly, forced synergy in general is bad. It's already not okay that we pretty much have to use bionics (which is okay by itself IMO) with axe, that's not the route to go further.

Melee damage (?) bonus from bionics needs to go, and be incorporated into axe itself. That damage (which I honestly believed at one point to be fluffy inclusion at best) is useless without Axe, and this piece of wargear will still be useful with melee build, but right now the very existance of this bonus enforces crappy base DPS onto axe making it even worse of a purchase by itself. It does not need to stay that way. Look at PC for inspiration, he greatly benefits from his armor/trinkets that synergize with melee build, but his melee weapon doesn't require you to get them just so that his sword/fist can deal the same DPS as most power/heavy melee weapons, he actually can chose additional wargear based on what he needs in terms of abilities/HP rather than forced synergy.

While energy drain is cute, you already have orbs for that, and while it's not very reliable to get them off, commiting to melee build with hero who has amazing ranged weapons and utility armour that he can actually use without gimping himself (which he does if he goes with axe, but not bionics as both swipe and DPS are important here) isn't brilliant idea either if countering halos or something along these lines is what you need.

Repair bonus on Axe would be a bill. If you want your TM repairing, chances are, you want him making holes with his bolter/plasma at the same time. Melee weapon doesn't synergize with rear support duty. I really like the idea of providing TM with repair bonus, but that probably belongs (if it belongs in TM's arsenal at all, that's it) on some armor piece, and if you guys feel that Bionics is so lackluster that you have to force it in some builds, then maybe that's where you should put it? Granted, that may warrant remake of HP/regen it provides, but really, repair duty would kinda synergize with ability to defend vechicle against heavy melee infantry via swipe at least. Ranged weapon would still be superior to axe in this scenario though, be it supressing bolter or facemelting plasma.

EDIT: Actually, it's not just the way Axe is implemented. TM, unlike aforementioned PC, was never designed to be in melee. He just happen to have one piece of armor that kind of works there. Before Axe was introduced, he had his buffing T3 bolter that was designing around doing exactly what TM was always supposed to do, staying the heck away, shooting and/or repairing while providing a buff. Axe doesn't fit there just as well.

I dont see a problem with the axe beeing primarily a melee counter than an actual melee weapon, thats why I never really had any problems with the TM not having a melee charge before it got fixed.

That said, I've been arguing for a small repair speed bonus on the axe for so long, the TM just loses so much vehicle synergy with it.

With any other weapon he can provide both fire support and repair his vehicles structures in combat situations.
The axe just doesnt allow to do that.

A small repair speed bugg would allow him to fix his sh*t up between engagements.
Making him less of a combat repair guy and more of a inbetween fixer.

Orkfaeller wrote:I dont see a problem with the axe beeing primarily a melee counter than an actual melee weapon, thats why I never really had any problems with the TM not having a melee charge before it got fixed.

As I've said, I believe that Axe itself doesn't do much to counter melee, it's mostly Bionics that is often bought alongside with it IMHO.

Everything else you've said is fair, repair bonus on Axe may be worth it if it's significant enough, I wouldn't mind if there are tradeoffs like that.

I still think that Bionics melee boost should be incorporated into Axe DPS though. Is there a reason why it would be a bad idea?

Repair bonus on the axe seems like a great idea.

Adding knockback immunity to just the axe (with or without the shield) would be too much?

IMO the axe is fine, it exsists to provide a trying up unit, the TM itself is very hard to force off, when he has the shield he has that 20% chance to make the enemy ranged fire miss him iirc, and bionics ability and hp regen + the power melee weapon give him a good edge against all melee units, and for the rest he has a very powerful/utility ranged build.

So the melee one is flexible enough to not warrant a buff imo.

Ace of Swords wrote:IMO the axe is fine, it exsists to provide a trying up unit, the TM itself is very hard to force off, when he has the shield he has that 20% chance to make the enemy ranged fire miss him iirc, and bionics ability and hp regen + the power melee weapon give him a good edge against all melee units, and for the rest he has a very powerful/utility ranged build.

So the melee one is flexible enough to not warrant a buff imo.

The actual problem is not that the build is UP/OP or whatever, the problem is that entire build is basically forced if you just want a melee weapon, to the point that you don't even get Axe's full effect if you don't buy Bionics (not to mention it already provides an ability that has synergy with melee), like the need for bonus EHP from Refractor field to go rambo wasn't enough.

My point was that if you want melee weapon, you should still retain ability to choose your wargear based on benefits those items provide both independently and in conjunction with your playstyle without thinking "I'm willing to sacrifice my melee utility/GTFO button for another ability, but such choice also gimps raw DPS of my weapon for some reason". I've already provided an example of hero that does it right, PC. Whatever weapon you choose, you get its full effect no matter what additional abilities you want, and all of them are useful no matter what as well. Sure, his trinkets favor different stances, but it's not because Fist does more damage with Icon while Spewer won't deal full damage without AIDS nades, or something equally strange.

I'm sure I could find some use for this item as I've already said, I just question design choice of forced synergy with Bionics, which would be a good supplement for Axe anyways.

Technicall you can go with whatever gear in addition to Axe, true, and indeed you get flexibility that way. Still, I don't know, maybe I'm dumb or something, but is there a reason Axe should deal less gamage if you use Artificier armor or Signum (or nothing at all)? I honestly doubt that Full DPS Axe + Mark target is the reason, all things considering.

Whether or not Mark target too powerful is entirely different topic though.