2.4 Balance Feedback

[Cheekie Monkie]

Because you should be building zoanthropes in like every game, they are that good.

One more quick comment on GK: Even with the swap of purgs and inties for ops, I still run at least 2 IST and usually even 3.

The "common" build order I ran during the vods was:
Start IST - Strike - IST - IST - Ops - Node - usually a BC upgrade - Gens

It's not like IST became useless.

I still think Moar Dakka probably needs to go to 100 red imo. I'm still iffy on FtE being 50 red too. Since FC players normally just bank it till they can get assault terminators I guess you don't see it THAT much but still, in 1v1s I think that could be pretty stronk.

Agreed, ISTs are still amazing for the map control and now scale decently in T2 due to both the warrior acolyte and the cheap plasma gun upgrade.

People just need to wake up and smell the coffee regarding FTE with the ridiculous combos it can generate. Things like Power Sword + Battlecry + FTE Plasma Cannon + Libby Smite + Sacred Standard isn't a once in a blue moon niche ability any more. It fits legitimate army compositions for a reasonable cost in all game modes. FTE has also made the FC a true force in team games, allowing you to support your allies much more frequently in areas where your own army has little or no map presence; combo with Sacred Standard and the FC becomes an exceptional team support commander rivalling the apo. It's insane, it's amazing and has so much undiscovered potential and I can almost guarantee that there will be a forum post about it a few weeks/months down the line.

[egewithin]

Someone demolished my Heavy Turrents with Operatives last night. I calculated and find out that the bomb is not enough to one shot a Heavy Turrent. But it destroyes it if it already took more than 150 hp, means 1/4 of its healt, it goes down. Sounds unfair since I paid a lot of money to it and a sneaky guy comes in and takes it down with a cheap wargear.

SOLUTION : Get into base with a Baneblade.

[enasni127]

Someone demolished my Heavy Turrents with Operatives last night. I calculated and find out that the bomb is not enough to one shot a Heavy Turrent. But it destroyes it if it already took more than 150 hp, means 1/4 of its healt, it goes down. Sounds unfair since I paid a lot of money to it and a sneaky guy comes in and takes it down with a cheap wargear.

This is quite a hard thing to discuss or even change/nerf. As far as I understood Caeltos the Operatives Satchel should be used to kill slow and big targets like vehicles and here's the problem: the Heavy Turret has vehicle armor. Even if the satchel gets nerfed vs generators (building light) they will still deal the same damage as before to a heavy turret (vehicle).

I am an exclusive IG player and right now I see 2 problems with that:

1. The turret is a global of the lord general, who doesn't have access to any other detectors than catachans or sentinels. So you are basically forced to build catachans or sentinels (worse detection than catas) in every single game against grey knights. Thats boring, and stupid and can also be abused to the disadvantage of the IG player. I think this has been an issue for a long time in matches like Lord General vs Lictor Alpha or Kommando Knob - they just FORCE you to build unit XY and already know your build before the game starts. I, personally, HATE that.

2. If you nerf the satchel's AV damage or the operatives infiltration/speed/whatever it will be easy mode for factions who have better ways to deal with operatives.

[GR)))]

Is the special attack (the one with the particle cloud effect surrounding the hero, not sure if there's more than one) of the Terminator Force Commander's claws bugged? It seems to be doing thousands of AE damage. I've had it instantly wipe two GK terminator squads in one game and decently leveled BC in another, both from near full health.

[Torpid]

Is the special attack (the one with the particle cloud effect surrounding the hero, not sure if there's more than one) of the Terminator Force Commander's claws bugged? It seems to be doing thousands of AE damage. I've had it instantly wipe two GK terminator squads in one game and decently leveled BC in another, both from near full health.

Yes. It is. They are aware of it. Basically ban that upgrade for now as it is utterly broken.

[Swift]

Is the special attack (the one with the particle cloud effect surrounding the hero, not sure if there's more than one) of the Terminator Force Commander's claws bugged? It seems to be doing thousands of AE damage. I've had it instantly wipe two GK terminator squads in one game and decently leveled BC in another, both from near full health.

And yet before people moaned about the special...

[Cyris]

I wanted to comment back on the GK post Atlas made, there were some really good points in it. This is from the perspective of a dedicated GK player (primarily 1v1).

1)SM vs GK is an almost impossible matchup for SM.
If you think it's bad now, you shouldda played 2.3! Purgation into INT was EZ mode. I don't think the matchup is as bad anymore, but maybe it's bad in different ways? Operatives side cap and fight scouts real well, but losing the purg/INT meant the massive gen-crushing push I could do is replaced with ratting. GK still have both their superior T1 squads, but I think things greatly even out in T2 when tacs can pickup a plasma gun I think the matchup is still in GK favor, but not by much. Ironically, GK counter SM, and are countered by Chaos imo. Seems a weird place for them thematically

2)I had a hard time justifying going to t3 as GK.
Very much this. I've been complaining on and off about this since 2.3, and it has only gotten worse in 2.4. I wrote more in the 2.4.2 Hotfix thread. 2.4 buffed up units that I never have time to make in 1v1, and increased their build time to make it even more inaccessible!

3)Mantle of Terra.... yeah
Totally agree. I talked about this in my GK Feedback Thread, and a cost increase on Agies changes nothing. In fact, the Mantle of Terra got big nerfs this patch imo, by removing INT from T2. There just aren't enough units that really want to spend energy constantly in T2 (the list is now: Libby) and the ability suppression is hard to appreciate and even harder to combo with the energy regen. Do I put it on my Ops/Purgation, or on my strikes to turn off doomblast? Neither is exactly super awesome, and the BC is not capable of spending his energy fast enough to benefit from the energy regen on the armor. Maybe a Hammer + Mantle + Teleport combo? But even then, you'd prolly have better map control if you had purchased Agies back in T1.

4)Noise Marines are OP
I completely agree. NM are the stronger version of Purgation squad, who still get to be in T1 and also turn off abilities. I do not have enough Chaos experience to say what should be done though, and maybe it's in the "acceptably OP" category.

[Crewfinity]

i'll talk a lot more about my thoughts on GK changes later, but can we please move entangling web back to T2?

my arguments:
WSE already is extremely good against melee squads as he can teleport around and bleed them. entangling web is an amazing control ability, one that is simply too good with dire avenger grenades. once your melee squad is entangled, it either has to retreat or risk getting wiped with no counter plays. In T2 its not as bad because you have squad leaders and whatnot, and its easier to force off WSE/DA before they can do that combo.

especially as the warboss, entangling web into 2 shurican platforms completely shuts down any possible counterplay. stormboys and sluggas both get wiped easily by entangling web into grenades because they dont have nobs, WSE can jump around and bleed the hell out of you, meanwhile dire avengers got tougher with exarch in T1. it really skews that matchup a lot.

[saltychipmunk]

yeah entangling web on that commander in t1 is just evil.