Dawn of War Codex

Dark Riku wrote:

Tex wrote:-doesn't change doombolts (they are already fantastic), but does change consume. Consume now gives hp and manna

Consume already does that.

Consume has never given hp. Ever.

Caeltos wrote:Consume has never given hp. Ever.

orgininal patch notes --> http://www.dowreplays.net/elite-changelog.html
"Consume now also heals for 40 health"

Codex ---> http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... s_sorcerer
Consume "Consumes the life force of an allied non-hero infantry unit, killing it to restore 50 energy and 40 health to the Sorcerer.
Range 8, cooldown 20 seconds."


It's bugged though atm. It works when you target the AC on tics but not when you target a tic model.
Don't know about the other units because you only ever want to consume tics ^^

sk4zi wrote:actually i like tex´s idea most.

but i think this thing should give more and be T3 ...

someth ridicolous like. +100 energy -30% CD for everything for about 200/50


also i would like the wheapon providing the "phase out" from the letters.

also i would like to see the warp global being a spell (with huge CD) and the global removed.
the benefit of this would be that it would no longer work when the sorc is down

sarcasm?

If not, way to take a decent idea by tex and blow it out of proportion.

Dark Riku wrote:

Tex wrote:-doesn't change doombolts (they are already fantastic), but does change consume. Consume now gives hp and manna

Consume already does that.

When in the heck did it give HP back? I think you are wrong here buddy.

Dark Riku wrote:

Caeltos wrote:Consume has never given hp. Ever.

orgininal patch notes --> http://www.dowreplays.net/elite-changelog.html
"Consume now also heals for 40 health"

Codex ---> http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... s_sorcerer
Consume "Consumes the life force of an allied non-hero infantry unit, killing it to restore 50 energy and 40 health to the Sorcerer.
Range 8, cooldown 20 seconds."


It's bugged though atm. It works when you target the AC on tics but not when you target a tic model.
Don't know about the other units because you only ever want to consume tics ^^

so it has always been meant to give HP but it has never actually worked. I didn't think we would both be right!

You learn something new everyday

The consume to regenerate health was scrapped before it was even implemented. It has never worked, because it was never intended to. It became more of a half-measure implementation by the sound of things, but never fully implemented.

Shit happends.

Gorilla wrote:

sk4zi wrote:actually i like tex´s idea most.

but i think this thing should give more and be T3 ...

someth ridicolous like. +100 energy -30% CD for everything for about 200/50


also i would like the wheapon providing the "phase out" from the letters.

also i would like to see the warp global being a spell (with huge CD) and the global removed.
the benefit of this would be that it would no longer work when the sorc is down

sarcasm?

If not, way to take a decent idea by tex and blow it out of proportion.

you mean "why" ?

because the sorc is imho weak in T3 and i think another 100 mana would be good for him.
the 30% sounds much but depends on what it is - 30% of a minute is huge 30% of 10 sec not that much.

it would just be less complicated for everyone if not everey spell is treated differennt.

also the armor i suggested gives no HP etc. at all - so out of what proportion?

Gorilla wrote:so it has always been meant to give HP but it has never actually worked. I didn't think we would both be right!

It is working when you target the AC on tics, it consumes 1 random tic model then because of leader mechanics.

I just tried it on every infantry squad except terminators and plague chosen and it doesn't grant health. I thought maybe you only get health when targeting ACs as a crappy consolation bonus, but I tried it on the AC on a CSM squad and it did not grant health either.

As Riku says, it only works when targeting the AC of a tic squad. Must be some relic code* from the earlier aborted effort still running around in the system.

* trollface.gif

How about a weapon wargear that DOES allow Consume to give health too?

Atlas wrote:How about a weapon wargear that DOES allow Consume to give health too?

Sounds nice. And what kind of weapon would that be? sword, staff or something new?. I think that a staff that hasn't melee improvements but deals plasma ranged damage would fit well with that ability, making him a good ranged opponent by firing, using spells and eating his allies to reload and heal.

Oh yes, I wanted to do triple plague marines under a daemon shield again. i remember that was awesome some nice ideas here like i said on my plague champ post having a free slot seems lazy so i hope these ideas count

Would it be easier to give him a doppleganger ability weapon, like in the last stand.

There is a lot of wargears, abilities and weapons from campaign and last stand, why not just take one from there instead of creating one.

He already has tome of subjugation for that.

Hello, I am aware that in 90% of the forums out there at the moment, this would constitute a massive gravedig, but instead of starting a new thread since there is already one here, I would like to present my idea for the Chaos Sorcerer's 3rd weapon:

T1 - Ancient Lightning Claw



Cost: 110/25
40 melee damage per hit, 40 melee dps

Equips the sorcerer with a single claw, its twin lost to the annals of time - de-powered, but crackling with the malevolent energies of the warp. Grants "Touch of the Warp".

Touch of the Warp

[placeholder icon]

Channeled ability: Partially rips a single* targeted model into the warp, making it invulnerable and immune to knockback or stun, but unable to attack or capture points for the duration of the channel or if the channel is interrupted. Sorcerer immobile during channel. 80 Mana, Range 30, 60 second cooldown.

------------------------------------------

NB: I am not a pro-level player, or even a pro-level sorcerer player, but I did have some novel ideas, and after bouncing them off a much more experienced player(Torpid), I decided to go to work. Before anyone feels bad about shooting this idea down, don't. It was conceived/executed in around 15 minutes, so I am aware that it will most likely need tweaking.

Rationale behind this wargear:

When coming up with an idea for a third weapon for the Chaos Sorcerer, I wanted to create an interesting tool for the Sorcerer that also fit with his(and his master's) persona. The Sorcerer is about unpredictability and tricking/confusing the opposition, and I realized that this would play very well into this sense of literal chaos.

At the same time, I also wanted this wargear to come with drawbacks and not become overwhelming, hence the "de-powered" nature of the power claw and the need for the ability to be channeled instead of a simple cast. For instance, the regular melee damage done by this "lightning claw" is not going to change the role of the Sorc at all, nor will it scale well in the traditional sense. In addition, the claw comes with no other buffs to the Sorc's already powerful abilities.

(And yes, non-terminator marines may use lightning claws).

Players familiar with Chaos will see that Touch of the Warp is essentially Phase Shift applied to a single model of the sorc's choice(allied or enemy), except channeled.

*At this point in time, I am unsure whether Touch of the Warp should affect vehicles or monstrous units.

Using Touch of the Warp:

At first glance this weapon does not seem to address the elephants present in the room, which is the sorc's inability to deal with vehicles personally, or the sorc's weakness to tanky single entities. However, while this ability is not damaging or even seriously disruptive(like subjugation or a stun), it essentially allows the CS to shut down the damage output of a single entity for a short period of time without actually really doing anything to that single entity.

For instance, CL charging down Havoc? Channeling Touch of the Warp would essentially prevent the Havoc from being tied up, without forcing the CL off, as Hammer of the Witches might in a similar situation. What the CS player would need to do while the CL is unable to attack/take damage is move the Havoc himself, preferrably into worship cloak. The result is that this wargear begins to present defensive advantages that require a fair bit of micro to pull off correctly, while rewarding the player for using excellent micro. At the same time, the Havoc has technically been forced off, but on its own terms.

Devastator about to shut down your heretics? Use Touch of the Warp on the model with the bolter - for 5 seconds, the dev will be unable to fire. WSE about to finish cap under shimmer shield? Touch him and buy yourself 5 seconds.

At this point, however, one needs to ask, why get this over Rod of Rapefire or Flame sword? This is an excellent question, as there are other ways to control a single entity or better ways to tie up a Devastator, such as teleport vest. In addition, Coruscating flames has amazing wipe potential, as does Rapefire's reliable full damage on retreat, not to mention the knockback. Sigil of the Rift can port capping enemies off the point, and is a must buy in many situations.

However, unlike the Rod or the Sword, Touch of the Warp can be used defensively as well. That heretic you just retreated out with a Horm brood right behind it... probably will be wiped, unless you cast Touch of the Warp on a model. Allied weirdboy trying to get into range to use warp vomit but afraid of being shot down by a wall of Kasrkins? Touch the weirdboy, use the ability, then instant retreat out. Allied terminators about to get wiped by nobs? 5 seconds might be all it takes for them to get out. Sorcerer about to be killed by formerly friendly but now very angry bloodrage Dreadnought? Touch yourself!!



Acknowledgements:
A big thanks to Torpid(and Crewfinity) for helping me refine my ideas!

It's not super bad, but having to channel the ability really hurts imo. I don't think I would get it if I was forced to knock out my own sorcfor 1 other model.

Yes, I know that Tome of Subjugation locks the sorceror as well, but that's a whole squad there. You don't have to worry about the other models of a squad knocking your sorceror down for example.

Atlas wrote:It's not super bad, but having to channel the ability really hurts imo. I don't think I would get it if I was forced to knock out my own sorcfor 1 other model.

Yes, I know that Tome of Subjugation locks the sorceror as well, but that's a whole squad there. You don't have to worry about the other models of a squad knocking your sorceror down for example.

True, but my concept works on commanders as well, and I'm thinking that it might be a good idea for it to apply to vehicles and monsterous creatures as well. Also, I think that you're forgetting the defensive uses of this ability and how powerful those uses can be.

For instance, with Touch of the Warp, simply playing vs Eldar might not mean that you basically can't get a Land Raider anymore. Eldritch Storm on Phobos? No problem, after it starts channel Touch of the Warp.

Even if this isn't applied to vehicles, the potential that it has in preventing squad wipes can be a serious benefit for any player.

T1 wargear that seems quite decent against vehicles sounds a bit questionable. Just my opinion.

Nah it couldn't affect vehicles as vehicles are absolutely crucial to one's composition. I mean, TOWing a kiting chimera and then jumping raptors into the guardsmen to force them off allows you to move in your plague marines and there, as soon as TOW ends it is a dead chim which without that wargear would probably have kited infinitely (who am I kidding you are a CS you could just sigil PMs behind it, but you get the idea right?).

Walkers are line-breakers vs suppression/arty, wait for a push, TOW their walker, now all the other stuff that pushed with it is suppressed and being blown to bits, then the walker becomes out of TOW and it has no support hardly, 5seconds is long enough to do this I think.

It affecting models does have quite a lot of utility though I think, more for TOWing enemy models - heavy weapons on set-up teams and none-set-up-teams (so good vs missle tacs and strangler warriors), obviously it helps vs heroes a lot, can take subcommanders out of play temporarily too and I don't think 5seconds is so drastic of an effect that it would be OP - remember the model affected by this won't lose any HP because they are "phased out" so to speak.

It can be used to save your own squads from wiping if they are on the last model while you bring reinforcements out of your base to save them. Maybe it could be usable on allied vehicles but not enemy ones? I dunno, even then, it may be too strong, serving as a flesh over steel counter and so on. It can't affect squads though, that would be too strong. Making bloodletters invulnerable for well over 10seconds, making plague marines/las-devs invulnerable for 5 sseconds and so detering enemy vehicles for quite a while, or worse yet just TOWing enemy jump squads after they jump a havoc while you move it back -_-

Torpid wrote:Nah it couldn't affect vehicles as vehicles are absolutely crucial to one's composition. I mean, TOWing a kiting chimera and then jumping raptors into the guardsmen to force them off allows you to move in your plague marines and there, as soon as TOW ends it is a dead chim which without that wargear would probably have kited infinitely (who am I kidding you are a CS you could just sigil PMs behind it, but you get the idea right?).

Walkers are line-breakers vs suppression/arty, wait for a push, TOW their walker, now all the other stuff that pushed with it is suppressed and being blown to bits, then the walker becomes out of TOW and it has no support hardly, 5seconds is long enough to do this I think.

It affecting models does have quite a lot of utility though I think, more for TOWing enemy models - heavy weapons on set-up teams and none-set-up-teams (so good vs missle tacs and strangler warriors), obviously it helps vs heroes a lot, can take subcommanders out of play temporarily too and I don't think 5seconds is so drastic of an effect that it would be OP - remember the model affected by this won't lose any HP because they are "phased out" so to speak.

It can be used to save your own squads from wiping if they are on the last model while you bring reinforcements out of your base to save them. Maybe it could be usable on allied vehicles but not enemy ones? I dunno, even then, it may be too strong, serving as a flesh over steel counter and so on. It can't affect squads though, that would be too strong. Making bloodletters invulnerable for well over 10seconds, making plague marines/las-devs invulnerable for 5 sseconds and so detering enemy vehicles for quite a while, or worse yet just TOWing enemy jump squads after they jump a havoc while you move it back -_-

Nurland wrote:T1 wargear that is sounds quite decent against vehicles sounds a bit questionable. Just my opinion.

I had not thought about the Chimera and the Sentinel part - good thoughts. I think we could either go with the original idea, which was no vehicle phasing, or...

We could reduce the time phased out to 2 seconds?

2 seconds is not a lot of time and potentially using a 60 second cooldown ability with a high mana cost is essentially taking the sorcerer out of play for far more than 2 seconds. No doombolts, no tele, no chains, etc...

I think that if someone had the micro & coordination to be able to take advantage of the 2 seconds to say, sic a bunch of AC tics onto GM camping around a sentinel that had been phased out and unable to stomp, it would be fair, as many would be unable to pull something like that off. In addition, I think it would allow for some very "skillshot" saves(as far as timing goes).

See a lascannon charging up to hit your ally's fire prism one last time before it blows up? Channel the ability on the prism and save it.

I'm not quite sure if a Lightning Claw could work for the Chaos Sorcerer. Animation-wise dependant and all that. For ex. I think he'd need a staff/sword (Similiar to Librarian) wargear. However, he could probably get a new animation (Similiar to other misc. lightning claws users, for say ex. Vanguard Model/old Raptor AC model. But again - not sure how the model itself would be effected by it.

Purely speculations that needs to be investigated.

Caeltos wrote:I'm not quite sure if a Lightning Claw could work for the Chaos Sorcerer. Animation-wise dependant and all that. For ex. I think he'd need a staff/sword (Similiar to Librarian) wargear. However, he could probably get a new animation (Similiar to other misc. lightning claws users, for say ex. Vanguard Model/old Raptor AC model. But again - not sure how the model itself would be effected by it.

Purely speculations that needs to be investigated.

Thanks for replying! Before I get into this much further, let me just say that I feel the lightning claw thing is really more of a fluff thing. To me, Staves and Swords seem so generic and overdone for spellcasters, and as a result, I wanted to tap into something that isn't commonly done but available in the WH40k lore.

In my mind, the backstory has always been that the Sorcerer, while searching for forbidden knowledge in ancient ruins, comes across this single, ancient lightning claw impaled in what's left of the ceramite armor of a space marine. Of course, there are Tyranids right behind him, and the Sorcerer lost his staff while scrambling for high ground.

As a result, what weapon the sorcerer should get really seems a bit secondary to me, and I think that the balance concern really should be geared towards the damage, damage type, and the ability that comes with the weapon.

I had thought about the potential issue with the animation, but then after observing some of the CS's animations, I realized that the sword/staff animations actually look somewhat "ambiguous". I'm not sure if this is the right word, but, basically, what I mean by this is that the animations don't look as "slashy" as say, the FC's animation. As a result, considering that the average lightning claw is fairly large, as long as we put it on his forearm, it would look alright.

Plus, the special attacks/finishing moves of the sorcerer don't seem that related to the weapon itself. There is the one move where he lifts his weapon up and there's an AoE knockback around the sorc, and there is this finisher(this finisher can end in two ways, he either flips the enemy back or he crushes him on the spot): http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/296 ... 95E8B88D2/

If you zoom in a bit, you'll notice that the sorc's hand is on the staff, and if we replaced his hand with a lightning claw, the animation wouldn't really have to change, with the exception that the tip of the talons of the lightning claw would probably be lower than the tip of the staff, so it might seem that the "alignment" is off, but only if we zoom in.

I'm not suggesting that we do a ramshackle job, but that new animations might not necessarily be a barrier to implementing the weapon.

That said, I know very little about modding and animating this game, and I will respectfully go away now

Happy holidays!

Could you not just give the Sorcerer one of the Hellblades from his Last Stand wargear?

Slaaneshi Cacophony wrote:Could you not just give the Sorcerer one of the Hellblades from his Last Stand wargear?

Yeah but that means forcing the Sorc to fight Melee fights. Which is counter productive considering how fragile he is.

What about a weapon that allows the Sorc to phase out like bloodletters. This will help in later tiers where survivability is desperately needed in my opinion.

Nah he's fine in later tiers WRT survivability as you can just keep him with your army but behind it to use all his spells -> daemon shield, doombolt, warpfire, chains, curse of tzeentch, sigil, tome, all work best behind your army. Otherwise you just give him vestments + sword of flame and go around back-capping everything come post-t1 while occasionally regrouping with your main army to sigil stuff.

Going really boring and probably op considering, but what about a t3 weapon that drains energy on hit like the witchblade and axe of the mechanicum?

And some kind of energy transfer weapon from Chaos Sorcerer to other squads, to support the hungry hungry Raptors?

Or a staff that gives an ability which resets the abilities cooldown from a squad?

For example, Chaos Terminators use their teleport-> Oh shit that was a terrible idea-> CS use his reset cooldown ability on Terminators -> Terminators can teleport away -> Teleport is again in cooldown.

Lost Son of Nikhel wrote:And some kind of energy transfer weapon from Chaos Sorcerer to other squads, to support the hungry hungry Raptors?

I like this idea - currently I feel raptors are actually really kinda useless in many mu's.

Surprise Attack! wrote:I like this idea - currently I feel raptors are actually really kinda useless in many mu's.

Raptors are very useful in in many MU's, they do not need extra help.

Dark Riku wrote:

Surprise Attack! wrote:I like this idea - currently I feel raptors are actually really kinda useless in many mu's.

Raptors are very useful in in many MU's, they do not need extra help.

Bold assertion. What's the basis for such?

Although I agree that they don't help I also think they're not very useful in many MUs, much like fire dragons.