Dawn of War Codex

Manticore needs to move atleast as fast as infantry moves. It is a joke now, and cloaked Storms are a guaranteed kill, that's why I never go manticore if there is IG on enemy team, especially a Inquisitor who just spawns them and buys the upgrade during the global ability invisibility.

Dark Riku wrote:

[EL] The Emperor wrote:How do you counter cloaked storms, or cloaked anything for that matter? I have had my Manticore back in my base before and they still fuck it up!!

A detector! :O (That useless sent of yours that you keep saying? If you really find it that useless, park it in front of the manti, protected!)

Not sure if your implying senti will protect manti from cloaked storms, or if only useful for the detect. The first is somewhat of a joke if thats what you meant lol

Sents detects in 15 range, you will see the storms, move in stomp them and you have all the time in the world to move the manti back.

What are you talking about... You have to be so absurdly close for the sentinel to detect that your sentinel would be useless for any other role than babysitting the manti, so you'de have to have it sat next to your manticore all game and even if it was you'de then have only a matter of seconds to switch over to the sentinel move it into the storms/infiltrated AV unit and stomp them. That is not going to work. Even if it bloody well did who thinks a manticore is worth 30 pop and 63 upkeep lol...





*I'm clearly still floating around wonderland*

Whoever has won a game because the manti has prevented your opponent from capping the vp.


Oh and I'd also like to use rangers which are a 350/40 investment or scouts which are 360/40 to go around an do other stuff instead of babysitting my vehicles, so yeah, don't complain about the sent doing.

Ace of Swords wrote:Sents detects in 15 range, you will see the storms, move in stomp them and you have all the time in the world to move the manti back.

Sorry, but the senti sight radius is abysmal. Not only would a half decent player realize the sentinel on approach (and from a safe distance, outside it's detection range), all he would need to do is position himself behind the manticore and get just a few rear armor hits.

The reaction time needed + the small time frame needed for the sentinel to do this is very unlikely. More than likely , the manticore would go down and if the IG player was smart with their energy consumption on the storms, there's a risk (though very small yet more likely then you're sentinel stomp suggestion) the sentinel could go down as well with a well place melta bomb. I would never use my sentinel as a makeshift manticore guard dog lol.

I have had success using catachans to guard against enemy IG storm troopers in team games. Obviously it's not ideal but sometimes you just really need a manticore...

fv100 wrote:I have had success using catachans to guard against enemy IG storm troopers in team games. Obviously it's not ideal but sometimes you just really need a manticore...

This is a somewhat better suggestion. Especially if there are a lot of threats to the Catachans, wherein you would want to pull them back for the time being. At the very least, their KB is a lot more reliable (ironic considering ol' unreliable) then hoping to get off a stomp on already in-range and in-position storms.

In 1v1 the manti covers more or less half of the map, it's inside your base for the most of the time and near it for the rest and you have the sentinel beside it, without counting that you know there are STs or atleast must expect that kind of play so you should always be jumping either on your manti, and ofc, your manti should be moved everytime it fires, this is regardless of the gamemode.

Ace of Swords wrote:In 1v1 the manti covers more or less half of the map, it's inside your base for the most of the time and near it for the rest and you have the sentinel beside it, without counting that you know there are STs or atleast must expect that kind of play so you should always be jumping either on your manti, and ofc, your manti should be moved everytime it fires, this is regardless of the gamemode.

of course, that goes without saying - leaving your sentinel in one spot will only increase the odds of it going down. But the scenario you listed is only one of very few situations. In a team game, for example - and often a place I feel where you will more than likely, see a manticore purchased - you often don't have this luxury. If at the very least, because of the map size.

Suffice to say, your suggestion might work well with certain maps - in particular, the refinery maps as I believe the sentinel may be able to cover most of the entrance into your base, enough to give you time to reposition your manti closer to the base turrets provided you are catch wind of what's going on before it's too late.

... what if the melta storms decide to kill your sent instead, then come back for manti te'o later?

Alternatively, if you plan your attack accordingly, I bet you could melta the sent to prevent a stomp and kill the manti with rear armor hits before it can get away.

TBH if you are playing against a faction that has infiltrated/teleporting AV then it's best to just accept that your manti is on a deathclock (unless is ridiculously well protected, like the mid spot on Angel Gate). Get super-aggressive with the manti, keeping it right behind your front lines so you can hopefully intervene with catachans and also reduce the travel time of your barrages. Hopefully, you'll make back your investment by bleeding them or wiping a critical squad. They're kinda like suppression teams in that respect - they're so flimsy they're almost assured to be dead by the time T3 rolls around, but hopefully they'll have had a significant impact by that time.

Arbit wrote:... what if the melta storms decide to kill your sent instead, then come back for manti te'o later?

Alternatively, if you plan your attack accordingly, I bet you could melta the sent to prevent a stomp and kill the manti with rear armor hits before it can get away.

The only problem with killing the sentinel is that you give up the element of surprise. Much like how you want to make the first volley count with a manticore strike (as it will usually be the most effective given the element of surprise against the opponent), you want your metla storms to get the most out of their first vehicle burst. Once you fail to take out the manticore the first time, focusing instead of the sentinel, you are risking coming back to a much more fortified manticore position. If the two were placed side by side, I don't see any situation where you wouldn't want to go for the manticore first. Especially considering how much potential it has for being a threat if left alone. You have to make the less greedy choice and hope for one vehicle going down - the 2nd is just a bonus.

Ace of Swords wrote:Oh and I'd also like to use rangers which are a 350/40 investment or scouts which are 360/40 to go around an do other stuff instead of babysitting my vehicles, so yeah, don't complain about the sent doing.

Do you really not see how that is fundamentally different?

The rangers/scouts are guarding a typical vehicle, something that is on the front-lines and so

1) They get to contribute in combat, unlike a sentinel sitting right next to your base all game.
2) The sight radius/detection they provide aids not only your vehicle but also every other nearby squad - a sent in base isn't providing much aid to anything other than the manticore itself.

But that's wrong, you need these units near your vehicle at all times, and they aren't going around capping, they aren't spotting other stuff like mines,IE or other infiltrated units. (unlike IG which has the privilige of choosing between 2 different spotters)

And if you bring your vehicle back to base for repairs, because surely STs aren't your only source of AV, but rather a finishing blow, you'll need to bring back GUs + rangers in the eldar case, and almost fully upgraded scouts in the case of SM or Orks will need a shootas squad in the back etc etc.

The sentinel suggestion is apsurd. It will be flanked outside its sight radius, the manticore will be taken out in 2-3 bursts depending on the squad and you will most likely proceed to lose your sentinel aswell because you are going to notice the whole skirmish only when your manticore hotkey stops working and by then the sentinel is on half health with a melta bomb ticking on it.

Best defense is a catachan squad with the sarge upgrade sitting right behind the manti, the enemy won't see them and will eat a knockback as soon as they come close right into a force melee with the catachans.

What's wrong? Nothing you just said would make anything I said wrong

Sure they aren't doing all that other stuff, but they're doing more than the sentinel in the base, but like has already been discussed that sentinel is not going to do much protecting a manticore anyway.

I don't understand what you're arguing for with that last post. All races need to bring their detectors back and move their vehicles back to protect from an infiltrated AV source when their vehicles are weak, in fact some races (IG included) need to move numerous squads back since their detectors can't repair, but this is all very different from the manticore-babysitting because the manticore isn't on the frontlines ever, because of how fragile it is, therefore whatever is relegated to that babysitting role will really not be doing much.

Torpid wrote:... Sure they aren't doing all that other stuff, but they're doing more than the sentinel in the base, but like has already been discussed that sentinel is not going to do much protecting a manticore anyway.

...But this is all very different from the manticore-babysitting because the manticore isn't on the frontlines ever, because of how fragile it is, therefore whatever is relegated to that babysitting role will really not be doing much.

Cut down a bit to get to the main points. This is why I suggested the agility buff for the Manticore earlier. You could reasonably argue that you should have a Manticore escorted by a detector unit but the major problems are that it's usually so far away from your army that it's escort is just using up upkeep and it's so slow that getting it somewhere is a major hassle.

Even if you wanted to shift it around a lot to prevent the enemy getting a bead on it's location, it's almost always better to just park it in the deepest part of your base and just leave it there. Is that a fun unit for either side?

therefore whatever is relegated to that babysitting role will really not be doing much.

As everyone else, you were the first complaining that you need to babysit your stuff, well, flashnews, that's a problem for everyone.

OMG I addressed how that just isn't true in my first response on this particular subject to you...

Atlas wrote:

Torpid wrote:... Sure they aren't doing all that other stuff, but they're doing more than the sentinel in the base, but like has already been discussed that sentinel is not going to do much protecting a manticore anyway.

...But this is all very different from the manticore-babysitting because the manticore isn't on the frontlines ever, because of how fragile it is, therefore whatever is relegated to that babysitting role will really not be doing much.

Cut down a bit to get to the main points. This is why I suggested the agility buff for the Manticore earlier. You could reasonably argue that you should have a Manticore escorted by a detector unit but the major problems are that it's usually so far away from your army that it's escort is just using up upkeep and it's so slow that getting it somewhere is a major hassle.

Even if you wanted to shift it around a lot to prevent the enemy getting a bead on it's location, it's almost always better to just park it in the deepest part of your base and just leave it there. Is that a fun unit for either side?

Yah and I even recently suggested your idea xD till Discreet, and Riku both shut me down. Anyways that whole sentinel guard thing is silly in the first place!! Along with a guard for the manticore (but thats my opinion because I have horrible map concept when it comes down to baby sitting the manticore).