Dawn of War Codex

@ torpid:

i like most of it but i would like to see a bit more in the next patch:

GK:
i like your rhino changes but this thing is just too cheap. it needs a bit higher req costs -180 ist just ridiculous

chaos:

autocannons: buff to dreadnaught autocannon might be ok but on the other hand i think their terminators/havocs autocannons can't be like they are. the terminators "ability (buff own damage, nerf target's damage on kill" is absolutely devastating vs units which are fast/easy to kill. and i don't see any reason for chaos havocs to have THAT crazy dps on their autocannons. i think it should be reduced i little bit.

tzeentch dread: seems to much of anti-everything for me and has it too easy to counter its counters.

slaughter: couldn't it be like the sm tac sergeants ability and just need ~1200 damage taken to be activated? i think this would make more sense, be less op and be somehow cool.

Imperial Guard

Assail: Are you sure it makes jump troops unable to jump? at least you can still teleport out of it. I think assail is one of IG's very few good options vs t3 melee squads like nobs etc and some times so badly needed. You can also press X to espace or just focus down the inquisitor! (When it's about subjurgation people always say "focus the sorc" - why can't we as IG just say "focus the Inq?" then ^^)

Ogryns: They need changes and by changes I mean whether a price decrease OR a T3 upgrade OR their ability should break supression - IG really needs a better counter vs wraith guard and I think Ogryns are their only unit suitable for that task IF they wouldn't be supressable while charging. ATM WG's absolutely destroy ig.

IG T2: There were so many threads about it and somehow nothing has been done. IG usually breaks in heavily on t2 in almost every game I play or replay/cast that I watch. I think this is cause of heavy AOE and Melee units. IG gets just blown to bits in t2 by sooo many thinks and there are many possiblities to instant-kill their squads. I would like to see something done here.

EDIT: I still think IG's T2 is too expensive compared to other races. People often say IG's T2 is so energy-heavy cause of their low-energy T1. This was maybe true in retail but is absolutely not true in elite mod because
- Sentinel Stomp needs to be upgraded for energy
- Spotters are a new unit that costs 30 energy and people need to buy them quite often
- wargear has seen a lot of changes and will so be used more often on T1 in some cases
- almost everybody builds catachans and sometimes HAS to do so, cause they are IG's best detector unit. If you want them at full health, you also need to upgrade the "demo man upgrade".
In short words: IG needs lost of power on T1 and is overpriced on T2.

Leman Russ: It's a great tank but it is already the most expensive tank in the game and also very slow so please decrease the cost of its weapon upgrades a little bit. Maybe from 185/30 to 150/30 or something like that. Fully upgraded a leman russ is almost as expensive as many super units atm!

Eldar:

D-Cannons: Higher RoF with less damage per shot might work but it still comes out of nowhere. It needs a "Spool-Up-Sound" or something like that.

Warp Spider: It has an ability (forgot the name ;( ) that lifts you up in the air and holds your troops there. You can be absolutely destroyed by that thing if nades/WG-blasts and so on hit your troops in that energy field. I think this is ok but it is absolutely not acceptable that this "Engery-Field-Ability" breaks your retreat command and makes you unable to escape.. Used right this can be worse than any nuke for the enemy.

Wraith Guard: 50 energy is not enough for a unit which has that crazy damage, lots of HP, is immune to supression and can hardly be knocked back. They need an energy-increase i'd say. Maybe 75 would be fine.

Ork

Units can be created too fast and so the first engagement is often horrible for their enemies. The build-time in seconds is not the problem but ork units get teleported in INSTANT while other races (with same build times) still need 2-3 secs until their units actually appear on their plattform cause their has some animation to be finished. This is not game breaking but often hard in the first engagement cause you immediately face a HUUUGE ork army don't have a big enough army to counter it. I just notice it cause i think many people haven't realized that so far.

Space Marines

Scouts: I think they could need a little buff vs melee units. Maybe the shotgun blast could do more damage or increase the knock back or something else.

enasni127 wrote:Assail: Are you sure it makes jump troops unable to jump? at least you can still teleport out of it. I think assail is one of IG's very few good options vs t3 melee squads like nobs etc and some times so badly needed. You can also press X to espace or just focus down the inquisitor! (When it's about subjurgation people always say "focus the sorc" - why can't we as IG just say "focus the Inq?" then ^^)

Correct me if I am wrong but I think that Inquisitor can move efter she cast this skill. Sorc is immobile during subjurgation - this is why you can focus fire him. Funny hat lady uses her skill and can walks away - kinda hard to focus her then.

Sturnn wrote:

enasni127 wrote:Assail: Are you sure it makes jump troops unable to jump? at least you can still teleport out of it. I think assail is one of IG's very few good options vs t3 melee squads like nobs etc and some times so badly needed. You can also press X to espace or just focus down the inquisitor! (When it's about subjurgation people always say "focus the sorc" - why can't we as IG just say "focus the Inq?" then ^^)

Correct me if I am wrong but I think that Inquisitor can move efter she cast this skill. Sorc is immobile during subjurgation - this is why you can focus fire him. Funny hat lady uses her skill and can walks away - kinda hard to focus her then.

hmm, good question. I haven't played her for a while cause I don't like her endless casting times and the "bugs" which are caused cause of these long animations (hammer of the witches doesnt work but timer is activated, holy pyre gets casted twice in a row and inq gets focused to death etc...)
As far as I remember, the supression was removed in elite and the rest is as in retail and IF it really is like in retail then she won't be able to move whilce using assail irrc. ...I will try it after work, can't do it here ^^

enasni127 wrote:@ torpid:

i like most of it but i would like to see a bit more in the next patch:

GK:
i like your rhino changes but this thing is just too cheap. it needs a bit higher req costs -180 ist just ridiculous

It could go up to 250, don't want to make it useless in T1 though, but then don't want to make it too strong in T2.

enasni127 wrote:chaos:

autocannons: buff to dreadnaught autocannon might be ok but on the other hand i think their terminators/havocs autocannons can't be like they are. the terminators "ability (buff own damage, nerf target's damage on kill" is absolutely devastating vs units which are fast/easy to kill. and i don't see any reason for chaos havocs to have THAT crazy dps on their autocannons. i think it should be reduced i little bit.

I think the chaos termies are fine overall. They have lower hp than SM termies for a reason and the autocannon itself is not amazing vs stuff like plasma tacs or dark reapers. The havocs are probably doing a bit too much damage at the moment I agree. Can't really put forward an objective reason for thinking that, it's just a hunch.

enasni127 wrote:tzeentch dread: seems to much of anti-everything for me and has it too easy to counter its counters.

Yeah I agree actually. Its ability really needs to be toned down at least. The damage it does plus the suppression is very OTT.

enasni127 wrote:slaughter: couldn't it be like the sm tac sergeants ability and just need ~1200 damage taken to be activated? i think this would make more sense, be less op and be somehow cool.

Imperial Guard

Assail: Are you sure it makes jump troops unable to jump? at least you can still teleport out of it. I think assail is one of IG's very few good options vs t3 melee squads like nobs etc and some times so badly needed. You can also press X to espace or just focus down the inquisitor! (When it's about subjurgation people always say "focus the sorc" - why can't we as IG just say "focus the Inq?" then ^^)

It does prevent jumping. IG deal with nobs easily, have you seen what the executioner leman russ does to them? Add in some plasma gun guardsmen and HWT teams with heavy bolters that can't be knocked over by stikks/the weirdboy due to their shield... Ogryns with their own on demand knockback and support from all of the IG heroes. You could also just use catachans with their multiple sources of KB and power melee. Nobs are easy to deal with, looted tanks are a far greater problem.

You can't focus down the inquisitor because:
1) She can move after she's cast it tying up your stuff in melee while under the rosarius or just running away to do something elsewhere, or even hiding behind cover shooting you with an inferno pistol.
2) Subjugation has a range of 30 whereas assail has a range of 45.

All of that when subjugate is T3 and costs 50 power, assail is t2, costs 20 power AND buffs the IQ's hp by 100. Very OP.

enasni127 wrote:Ogryns: They need changes and by changes I mean whether a price decrease OR a T3 upgrade OR their ability should break supression - IG really needs a better counter vs wraith guard and I think Ogryns are their only unit suitable for that task IF they wouldn't be supressable while charging. ATM WG's absolutely destroy ig.

Definitely not. As an avid IG player one may think I'de be the first to buff IG but after all the buffs that ogryns have got they are really fine now. You have to combine them with the heroes different abilities to get the full effect out of them. Infiltration, heals, damage and speed buffs, immunity to suppression. Add in spotters which can deal with two set-up teams from afar, they really don't need to be able to deal with suppression any easier or a price decrease. I wouldn't mind a bullgryns upgrade on them come T3 which makes them have more hp and possibly slightly increased damage at the cost of -1 speed and no charge ability.

enasni127 wrote:IG T2: There were so many threads about it and somehow nothing has been done. IG usually breaks in heavily on t2 in almost every game I play or replay/cast that I watch. I think this is cause of heavy AOE and Melee units. IG gets just blown to bits in t2 by sooo many thinks and there are many possiblities to instant-kill their squads. I would like to see something done here.

EDIT: I still think IG's T2 is too expensive compared to other races. People often say IG's T2 is so energy-heavy cause of their low-energy T1. This was maybe true in retail but is absolutely not true in elite mod because
- Sentinel Stomp needs to be upgraded for energy
- Spotters are a new unit that costs 30 energy and people need to buy them quite often
- wargear has seen a lot of changes and will so be used more often on T1 in some cases
- almost everybody builds catachans and sometimes HAS to do so, cause they are IG's best detector unit. If you want them at full health, you also need to upgrade the "demo man upgrade".
In short words: IG needs lost of power on T1 and is overpriced on T2.

Catachans are IGs only detector unit which is a bit worrying...

But IGs T2 is so expensive because it is fantastic. It can counter any other races T3 except for an eldar with rangers and a fire prism, but even then there's a good chance you can snipe it with sentinel missles or a manticore shot. IG are much weak in T1 than T2 in elite. Any IG player will be able to tell you this. Most of IGs woes in T2 result from a poor T1 which meant that by the time both players got to T2 the non-IG had an economic or military lead already.

enasni127 wrote:Leman Russ: It's a great tank but it is already the most expensive tank in the game and also very slow so please decrease the cost of its weapon upgrades a little bit. Maybe from 185/30 to 150/30 or something like that. Fully upgraded a leman russ is almost as expensive as many super units atm!

It's the best tank in the game, I think those costs are justified. That's all I shall say on that

enasni127 wrote:Eldar:

D-Cannons: Higher RoF with less damage per shot might work but it still comes out of nowhere. It needs a "Spool-Up-Sound" or something like that.

Warp Spider: It has an ability (forgot the name ;( ) that lifts you up in the air and holds your troops there. You can be absolutely destroyed by that thing if nades/WG-blasts and so on hit your troops in that energy field. I think this is ok but it is absolutely not acceptable that this "Engery-Field-Ability" breaks your retreat command and makes you unable to escape.. Used right this can be worse than any nuke for the enemy.

You mean the anti-grav-grenades. They're quite short range and personally I find them hard to use well so I can't ask for a nerf on these. Besides the alternatives are so good, more damage and range or shimmer orbs. His accessories are undeniably brilliant.

enasni127 wrote:Wraith Guard: 50 energy is not enough for a unit which has that crazy damage, lots of HP, is immune to supression and can hardly be knocked back. They need an energy-increase i'd say. Maybe 75 would be fine.

For years I have said that the buffs from retail WG to elite were largely unwarranted. I tried to get some reasoning behind it but all Caeltos seemed to say was "welp, WG sucked in every MU except IG so I buffed them". This just made them way way way too good vs IG and still useless in most other MUs in every scenario in which you would not have got them in retail anyway (i.e. not when they lack super units). I think the only warranted change was the speed buff. The increased dps via lower reload/cd time (it was one or the other) and the increased hp I never did and still don't find warranted.

enasni127 wrote:Ork

Units can be created too fast and so the first engagement is often horrible for their enemies. The build-time in seconds is not the problem but ork units get teleported in INSTANT while other races (with same build times) still need 2-3 secs until their units actually appear on their plattform cause their has some animation to be finished. This is not game breaking but often hard in the first engagement cause you immediately face a HUUUGE ork army don't have a big enough army to counter it. I just notice it cause i think many people haven't realized that so far.

But orks default units are dreadful??? Seriously, they're really bad. Shootas lose to dire avengers in their default modes quite hard. Sluggas bleed models too soon to be very useful in combat. I really haven't had a problem fighting orks in the first engagement.

enasni127 wrote:Space Marines

Scouts: I think they could need a little buff vs melee units. Maybe the shotgun blast could do more damage or increase the knock back or something else.

Scouts are already more than good enough for 15 power. Melee units can never catch them due to their speed and at close range they do damage akin to tactical space marines alongside their KB/suppression. One thing that you have to account for with scouts is that they are extremely versatile. With their grenades, consistent dps at a decent range by default, their anti-suppression capabilities with snipers and so on. Anyway, I think scouts are fine. Like really, they're closer to OP than UP with the elite training upgrade too.

Torpid wrote:Scouts are already more than good enough for 15 power. Melee units can never catch them due to their speed and at close range they do damage akin to tactical space marines alongside their KB/suppression. One thing that you have to account for with scouts is that they are extremely versatile. With their grenades, consistent dps at a decent range by default, their anti-suppression capabilities with snipers and so on. Anyway, I think scouts are fine. Like really, they're closer to OP than UP with the elite training upgrade too.

Well both scout snipers and rangers are a little bit crappy now to be fair, though I'm still scratching my head as to how to make them balanced and fun at the same time.

In other news, elite training's regen makes them survive sniper hits thiiis much more.

@ Torpid:

very detailed. Most things you pointed out convinced me and seem to be right

so, whats left is

- GK rhino. I think 250 req would be fair, agreed

- maybe a slight chaos autocannon dps reduction (or, if it is ok, buff IG's autocannon to the same DPS ;D )

- tzeentch dread being ott (how would you change it?)

- wraith guard. If they are only good vs IG then maybe IG should be buffed vs WG and not WG nerfed vs IG? But how can this be done without affecting other MU's? Really, when I play IG and the eldar goes for WG or maybe even 2xWG then I just fall apart even if I have a big VP lead and are ahead in money and tech. It just doesn't feel like i'm attacked on same skill lvl, it just feels like the "I win button" for eldar sometimes.

- anti grav nade: I don't say its effect should be nerfed, I just think it is not right that it breaks retreat on units - you could even cast an eldritch on the stuff caught and kill everything in a second.

I tried to get some reasoning behind it but all Caeltos seemed to say was "welp, WG sucked in every MU except IG so I buffed them".

Don't do that.

Caeltos wrote:

I tried to get some reasoning behind it but all Caeltos seemed to say was "welp, WG sucked in every MU except IG so I buffed them".

Don't do that.

What's the reasoning? I mean, we are going back years now, there was never a proper answer.

There's no reason to dig at someone to make a point, especially if it's a really old discussion that might not have gone down like that.

On the topic of WG, I think there's some untapped potential with Eldar as a whole regarding Falcons. WG have no setup time, are fairly tough and can hit from a decent enough range. Their major weakness is speed which, if you place them in a Falcon, can be hugely mitigated without the need of buying the otherwise fairly useless warlock leader. I feel the same about Fire Dragons, though replace the word "speed" with "durability".

I'm not an expert Eldar player, but I think the current meta is too heavy on spiders and wraithlords and I think that's a shame.

Chaos:
I am totally fine with an increase to the default Dread Autocannon damage, especially if its coupled with a nerf on the MOT varriant. As has been mentioned previously, the MoT version is a bit too good for whats supposedly a specialized weapon. Maybe a price increase on MoT in addition to this change?

I don't think havoc's should entirely lose the melee resistance, but it needs to waaaaaay dialed down. Maybe to something in the 5-15% range or made available to them as an upgrade, their own eternal war perhaps ?

Just an idea for slaughter: When the ability is activated, it buffs the stance of the squad that it held at the start of the engagement. This could prevent the current issue of people being able to use it in range, then switch to melee if they get charged.

IG:
Just a few ideas/wishlisting

For the GM: could we reduce the scatter on the lasguns? I recently found myself attacking a power farm and noticed that many times my guardsmen will be doing as much damage to the targeted generator as they do to the one behind it. This is kind of annoying and if it affects their shooting against normal targets as well then it is a real hindrance to their function as a squad.

Could we see a possible adjustment to the way melta stromtroopers work? At the moment they are incredibly niche and are almost useless outside of transport hunting. I'd like to see them gain some capping speed to give them some utility as a capping squad that way they aren't a complete burden once purchased and could help IG deal with their map control a bit.

IG really could use some tweaking early game though. They seem to be either really oppressive or easy push overs without a lot of middle ground in their performance, at least based on the 1v1's I've played of late. As is, it seems like most games snowball out of control one way or another and end really quickly.

Torpid wrote:Regarding the psychic lash I don't why you guys are so bothered about it. Yes it's like flesh hook - except it has a slower animation, is T2, isn't on a race where their only counter is something which flesh hook counters, it costs 35 power and it takes up an accessory slot which otherwise has your tanky melee hero be even more tanky or be able to teleport. It's the fact that flesh hook is none of that that makes flesh hook OP. I think the "flesh hook OP" notion has gone to your heads. Do yo think flesh hook on T3 lictors is OP? It bloody well isn't. You mean compared to time field and similar abilities? Lol.

It's totally fine as a flesh-hook-ability, what's wrong with it? The fact that there's no counter-play? Well there's no counter-play to the techmarine's high powered shot, to the warlock's destructor, to the farseer's mind war, to the apo heals or full-auto, the battlecry with the TH and teleport etc etc.

Psychic lash being buffed as I proposed would help GK a lot in many of the MUs where they struggle atm such as all the nid MUs and all the ork MUs. It wouldn't be much use in other MUs because you don't need it there as GK anyway - you want the teleporter pack most of the time anyway.

Yeah, but that doesn't make any fucking sense now does it? The LA already counters every t1 ranged squad right out of the gate with his 5.5 speed, high dps, and infiltration, why is it that he gets a zero skill point and click ability that counters heroes and subcommanders, all of the LA's counters (hf with die last squad leaders being dragged into the nid blob), inflicts a shitton of bleed, and wipes everything on retreat?

All sniping abilities need to have severe drawbacks, whether it's high cost or difficulty of use or locking out other powerful options, otherwise it breaks balance all over the place.

And I will just say that LA has pretty much 0 unfavored matchups and playing against the LA as sm/chaos/gk/ig/orks/eldar (oh wait that's every race in the game np) might as well be gg no re on the loading screen.

Atlas wrote:There's no reason to dig at someone to make a point, especially if it's a really old discussion that might not have gone down like that.

On the topic of WG, I think there's some untapped potential with Eldar as a whole regarding Falcons. WG have no setup time, are fairly tough and can hit from a decent enough range. Their major weakness is speed which, if you place them in a Falcon, can be hugely mitigated without the need of buying the otherwise fairly useless warlock leader. I feel the same about Fire Dragons, though replace the word "speed" with "durability".

I'm not an expert Eldar player, but I think the current meta is too heavy on spiders and wraithlords and I think that's a shame.

I couldn't agree more, on the days when I do play Eldar (I don't do well) I tend to like buying Falcons and Fire Dragons. Warp Spiders I see are relied upon more vs SM than Dark Reapers, and I even find that just for their teleport and haywire theya re far more worth my investment. I get the synergy between the haywire and brigth lance, but is it possible we might want to put more reliance on the dedicated AV units like FIre Dragons than on Warp Spiders, which seem to be the squad for "Well I need to win this game so let's go for Warp Spiders."

Devastators/Havocs are fine; if anything, it's the first time they've been fine in a loooooong time. For the longest while they were units you built in T1 and kind of prepared to lose in T2, that should never the way to think about any unit..

I think Lootas could benefit from a buff of some kind as well.

Havoc melee resistance is a bit too much atm. Makes them too hard to force off in T1.

Protagonist wrote:IG:
Just a few ideas/wishlisting

For the GM: could we reduce the scatter on the lasguns? I recently found myself attacking a power farm and noticed that many times my guardsmen will be doing as much damage to the targeted generator as they do to the one behind it. This is kind of annoying and if it affects their shooting against normal targets as well then it is a real hindrance to their function as a squad.

This would be SO awesome! It's sometimes very annoying how much firepower is lost cause of that. Usually I try to shoot blobs first cause of the scatter cause it's really amazing how much more damage gm's do if not 50% of their shots hit the grass

But here is a fact : Guardsmens are not pro- soliders. They can miss since they are normal humans like us aren't they? Also, that accularty on weapons would make 3 GM build unfairly OP.

About our dear IQ assail, yeah. Look IQ is not a strong hero okay. I don't even want to use her in melee, just want to give Inferno Pistol to keep her away from harm, because she dies too quickly. Only 720 hp on an offensive hero? Come on! If we gonna nerf her only purpose, there is no reason to use her? Well, at least Warlock is fast so he won't be damaged from ranged too much even with 720 hp.

IMO : IQ doesn't needs nerfs. I think she needs some buffs. EG : a cool armor that can actually work in melee combat. Some nice health buff like 150 hp and a regeneration with a fair crow control ability. Or we can just buff the first armor of her for these. Not sure, we should talk about it later.

At last : I'm not top happy with Judmet from Inferno Pistol. I think it should be just a little bit more (and I mean little) effective. A knockback around the target can be awsome and can be too powerfull and can couse problems. I just want a little buff to see my face satisfyed.

firatwithin wrote:But here is a fact : Guardsmens are not pro- soliders. They can miss since they are normal humans like us aren't they? Also, that accularty on weapons would make 3 GM build unfairly OP.

About our dear IQ assail, yeah. Look IQ is not a strong hero okay. I don't even want to use her in melee, just want to give Inferno Pistol to keep her away from harm, because she dies too quickly. Only 720 hp on an offensive hero? Come on! If we gonna nerf her only purpose, there is no reason to use her? Well, at least Warlock is fast so he won't be damaged from ranged too much even with 720 hp.

IMO : IQ doesn't needs nerfs. I think she needs some buffs. EG : a cool armor that can actually work in melee combat. Some nice health buff like 150 hp and a regeneration with a fair crow control ability. Or we can just buff the first armor of her for these. Not sure, we should talk about it later.

At last : I'm not top happy with Judmet from Inferno Pistol. I think it should be just a little bit more (and I mean little) effective. A knockback around the target can be awsome and can be too powerfull and can couse problems. I just want a little buff to see my face satisfyed.

Yeah, removing GM scatter would make them very OP. Big no.

IQ is a great hero. Totally legit. She makes a great melee hero with her interrogator's/rosarius/brazier combo, assuming you use no spells she gets a total of 1470hp at lv1. Assail is still viable with that though as it gives her the +100hp, whereas interrogator's gives her 250hp worth of energy for the rosarius. But she's a more versatile hero then and you can also just use assail to pin down fleeing squads to beat them in melee.

Ultimately the IQ should never be anywhere near as good as any of the other tanky melee heroes because that would be OP given 1) how versatile she is courtesy of all her supportive spells and ranged wargears and 2) the race that she belongs to. IG put out obscene levels of ranged dps in t1 and you need to use most of your ranged firepower to focus down sents. If IG could get a hero like the CL with her combi flamer too... It would just be broken. That's what makes the LG so amazing in T1, to compensate the LG doesn't really get many abilities, and he doesn't quite change fights like the IQ/LC can from a compositional perspective.

Judgment is fantastic. Judgment+hellfury wipes fully upgraded warp spiders (I once wiped two squads of them with one judgment) in an instant, combine it with interrogator's so they don't even know where your IQ is so they can't evade her and it means they risk having a squad wiped everytime you use it or having to retreat the judged squad unnecessarily some seconds later. Plus interrogator's gives you more energy for the judgment so you don't NEED to get the liber heresius (instead you can get the servo skull for the extra line of sight to synergise with the judgment itself).

firatwithin wrote:About our dear IQ ...

No, Just no to everything you just said about the Inquisitor.

firatwithin wrote:About our dear IQ ...

INQ isn't actually an offensive commander even though the game labels her as one. shes more of a support/offensive hybrid.

she doesn't need buffs, i hate to say it but; sounds like you're using her wrong or she simply doesn't suit your playstyle; which as you might immagine isn't a good basis for balance claims.

Torpid wrote:

Yeah, removing GM scatter would make them very OP. Big no.

Surely we could reduce their dps to compensate for an increase in accuracy? Unless I'm over simplifying things, it seems to me that its just a minor rng tweak that would make them more consistent in their performance.

Protagonist wrote:

Torpid wrote:

Yeah, removing GM scatter would make them very OP. Big no.

Surely we could reduce their dps to compensate for an increase in accuracy? Unless I'm over simplifying things, it seems to me that its just a minor rng tweak that would make them more consistent in their performance.

Well I suppose so although that would be rather hard to calculate I imagine. The worry is it would lead to GM bleeding models too quickly.

incase you didn't notice most infantry have some kind of scatter. shootas, dire avengers, hell even marines, the list goes on.

there is no reason to change guardsmen.

Having played a lot of Inq, I can say that she definitely does have some very good points. In my play, she is a linchpin upon which a lot of the overall strategy revolves around because in some cases she might be the only source of control that you have on the field. I feel that she adds the most dimensions to IG play as opposed to things like the simple buffing of the LG.

In regards to the interrogator's/rosarius combo I'm a little more skeptical over. Yes, the armor provides a theoretical +250 hp to the Inq but that's under the assumption that you don't use any of her abilities and really, if you're not using her abilities I don't think you're playing her right. Except for some very specific circumstances like very late game for purgatus or vs eldar or ig mirror leaning towards interrogator's I would buy excruciators almost by default.

If there's anything that really needs changing for Inq (besides Assail) I think it's the Liber Heresius wargear.It gives an unbelievable amount of energy, but I think it should be changed to a more reasonable amount of energy with a small boost to energy regen in exchange. At the moment, I feel the other three accessories are more desirable.

Atlas wrote:Having played a lot of Inq, I can say that she definitely does have some very good points. In my play, she is a linchpin upon which a lot of the overall strategy revolves around because in some cases she might be the only source of control that you have on the field. I feel that she adds the most dimensions to IG play as opposed to things like the simple buffing of the LG.

In regards to the interrogator's/rosarius combo I'm a little more skeptical over. Yes, the armor provides a theoretical +250 hp to the Inq but that's under the assumption that you don't use any of her abilities and really, if you're not using her abilities I don't think you're playing her right. Except for some very specific circumstances like very late game for purgatus or vs eldar or ig mirror leaning towards interrogator's I would buy excruciators almost by default.

If there's anything that really needs changing for Inq (besides Assail) I think it's the Liber Heresius wargear.It gives an unbelievable amount of energy, but I think it should be changed to a more reasonable amount of energy with a small boost to energy regen in exchange. At the moment, I feel the other three accessories are more desirable.

When she's running solo on 1v1 you don't really need to use her abilities often - she only has HOTW/pyre anyway with that set-up, or silently if you come across a set-up team I guess. The liber heresius does grant a energy regen, the huge energy it grants is basically made to combo with judgment which itself costs a huge 100 energy and then whatever ability she has for her armour and HOTW which usually means in any instance she needs 200 energy. Granted 250 energy is still quite silly for a lv1 hero. 200 energy + more regen would be nice.

I'de like to see interrogator's give a slight energy regen though. This would make it synergise better with that tanky rosarius play and give her a more suitable "ok" melee option - she still isn't using spells and is still stuck to 50power melee dps and a meh special. You'de still want the liber heresius if you went for assail/purgatus, both extremely good armour upgrades in their own right.

firatwithin wrote:But here is a fact : Guardsmens are not pro- soliders.

Obviously regiments differ but most Guardsman are full-time soldiers. Cadians in particular are professional in every sense of the word.

Ven wrote:incase you didn't notice most infantry have some kind of scatter. shootas, dire avengers, hell even marines, the list goes on.

there is no reason to change guardsmen.

They do although I think higher ROF leads to more scatter damage. You don't see scatter damage anywhere near as much with termagants for example but they fire extremely slowly. GM on the other hand fire very often. This is just a hunch on how it works, no guarantee at all.

I've noticed that it's not the GM that bleeds models in T1 per se, it's the sentinels. They focus fire on single models well, at least when firing stationary. I suppose this is where GM + sent synergy comes into play - GM wears them down whilst the sent strikes the killing blow.

Playing around with GM spread will change the game dynamic so much more than bashing gens, though I can't comment on whether it'll be for the better or worse.

@ GM Scatter:

Nobody on this forum ever said the lasgun scatter should be removed so I don't understand why people talkt about that being OP so much...

It was said that GM Scatter is pretty awful and could possibly be reduced a bit - not removed

If this would cause an effective increase of DPS on single targets this would ofcourse needed to be adjusted to keep their wanted dps but let them fire with a bit better accuracy.

@ Dark Riku:

It would sometimes be very helpful if you could point out/explain what you write here. Usually you just say things like "XY is fine", or "NO, NO, NOOOO" etc. Really, tell us WHY XY is fine or WHY you say no to something. I think we could understand your points a bit better then

enasni127 wrote:@ Dark Riku:

It would sometimes be very helpful if you could point out/explain what you write here. Usually you just say things like "XY is fine", or "NO, NO, NOOOO" etc. Really, tell us WHY XY is fine or WHY you say no to something. I think we could understand your points a bit better then

I highly doubt that. My experience with forums indicates otherwise. Just a huge waste of time. Besides, Torpid already explained it.

Torpid wrote:

enasni127 wrote:@ torpid:

i like most of it but i would like to see a bit more in the next patch:

For years I have said that the buffs from retail WG to elite were largely unwarranted. I tried to get some reasoning behind it but all Caeltos seemed to say was "welp, WG sucked in every MU except IG so I buffed them". This just made them way way way too good vs IG and still useless in most other MUs in every scenario in which you would not have got them in retail anyway (i.e. not when they lack super units). I think the only warranted change was the speed buff. The increased dps via lower reload/cd time (it was one or the other) and the increased hp I never did and still don't find warranted.

I'm not sure exactly how does the mechanic work, but would it be possible to remove or severely reduce the aoe component of the Wraithguard blast so that it does all dmg on 1 targetet model (or more if bunched eg. in cover). That way it wouldnt completely delete IG with 0 skill needed, but it would retain its potency vs other armies and vehicles.