Dawn of War Codex

Toilailee wrote:I'm ignoring the rest of the thread.

Torpid wrote:And also, the CL is assuredly weaker than the CS in 1v1. Assuredly. My apo can handle a good CL any day, but a good CS? Not a hope in hell. Totally different MU entirely.

Since as long as I can remember SM has been concidered the worst mu for chaos and even more so for CS. What exactly does a good sorc do that makes it so hard on your apo (apart from doombolts)? I'm genuinely interested.

I had a huge series vs chaos librarian recently and it taught me that the only way to beat the CS is triple scouts, 1 sarge+shotgun, 2 sniper + tacs and upgrades on your hero if FC/apo (alacrity and power sword/vials and sanguine) or get a turret as TM.

Admittedly that build works quite well but soon after libby realised he needed raptors, which are OK against the build.

Anyway, nobody is doing that build in the first place. So let's look at the other builds. Firstly, the infiltration worship makes a fast dev useless vs a good CS unless you have detection which basically already means you haven't got a fast dev as that costs 25 power. ASM are great in T1, like, really really good so long as you don't run into nm and double tics, but realistically they get utterly mauled in T2. Besides they can't do anything vs the nm/havocs/2xtics if they are all blobbed even in T1.

In T1 the CS gets sigil and warp. Warp just makes him a total nuisance when it comes to map control and the combination of NM/havocs/tics/doombolts is just stupid strong in T1.

Most of the problems occur in T2 though. Atlas has the idea. Robes of torment stick your ASM in place to be devoured by the Kdread which can use blood rage on the ASM which can't move which forces an instant retreat and stops your second jump and basically just makes them useless since they have to retreat immediately after jumping in - you never get chance to kil lthe melee resist havocs or even force them off.

Meanwhile las-devs are useless as they just get sigiled instantly. So you basically have to rely on missle tacs which themselves just get suppressed by havocs and torn to pieces by TCSM or even tied up by BLs. RBs are practically useless since the CS can warp around his las-havocs or sigil them after it and it dies instantly and that assumes he doesn't go for PMs which he can also sigil behind RBs and pretty much insta-gib them.

So what do I do? My devs are useless in HB or las form or plasma form. TCSM and havocs butchers tacs at range. Kdread can solo my walkers and the CS has these super mobile las-havocs whereas I have no such hard AV that is viable. ASM can forced off immediately after jumping their SUTs without ever forcing them off due to robes+Kdread. RB gets killed way too easily by the mobile AV of CS. Obviously the superior choice here is the libby but even then he dies very fast when approaching stuff like BLs and a Kdread and it's all just very awkward tbh. The CL is far easier to deal with. I think the uselessness of ASM is the biggest factor, but sigil secondarily.

T3 is totally useless too since chains and TCSM make termies pretty useless whereas sigiling las-devs and PMs about makes preds pointless.

I've always considered chaos easy mode, but i don't really do 1v1s.

sigil is ridiculous, at the very least it completely nullifies setup teams for 100/20 at no risk to the sorc. A one way rift would be a great change imo

Broodwich wrote:I've always considered chaos easy mode, but i don't really do 1v1s.

sigil is ridiculous, at the very least it completely nullifies setup teams for 100/20 at no risk to the sorc. A one way rift would be a great change imo

Not sure whats the deal with sigil, was it changed in Elite because the sigil in retails was meh at best unless you are at quest heresy where you can abuse it. I mean you can always change position of your setup team. Ill need to try it out.

It isn't ridiculous at all anymore. Not in 1v1 at least. If you pay attention, you can quite easily move out of the way now that it doesn't warp stuff right away.

Tex wrote:It isn't ridiculous at all anymore. Not in 1v1 at least. If you pay attention, you can quite easily move out of the way now that it doesn't warp stuff right away.

Not SUTs, although VOT obviously helps with that which is why really the libby is necessary vs CS even more so than the other chaos heroes.

There should be the expectation of Sigil or at least doing a bit of reconnaissance of your own to see that it's on the table.

To be fair the window is pretty small for suppression teams but it's still fairly doable to reposition before it comes into play.

Torpid wrote:@ Tex - Again, what are you comparing chaos to here? ...

Agree with what Torpid said.
We could use a +1 button.

just have in mind that

1. raptor werent in the game, chaos was designed originally to play without jump troops in t1
2. just because raptors are somehow inferior to ASM doesnt mean raptors are UP.. by that logic every other single SM squad is UP since chaos squads got better numbers

There's even an old video of Tex saying how retarded strong raptors are for chaos and how they can rape in t1 mixed with tics :/

Ehhh, in regards to the pc. i just do not like how he has no inherently usable t1 abilities that don't themselves have a price tag on them.

the presence or absence of some sort of ability absolutely can spell the difference between having or not having the upper hand in terms of field presence in the first two fights of a match.

an issue that both the techy and pc have and my god they get walked all over by even half baked rushes. gotta get that kiting action going .. often at the expense of those nods you just capped and that power you built.

other than that, any jump unit without some sort of knock back is inherently at a disadvantage at their job , then again raptors are budget jump units like ravener and stormboys. you get what you pay for i suppose.