Dawn of War Codex

saltychipmunk wrote:Well you can argue that gk has the bro cap and his we are the hammer to facilitate a quicker escape with terminators. that being said it is generally always a bad idea to use the terminator teleport offensively. This holds true even for sm. There is nothing wrong with having a unit that has trouble disengaging once it commits. that is how walkers and relic units work after all. The issue gk had was always the lack of alternative options.

Well, acutally I meant that firstly they were given reatreat becasue reasoning was that they dont have how to fall back after teleport. I also agree that player should be punished for bad move but giving them option as libby to get termies back to safety is ok imho. The same was told when we asked why SM Termies dont get reatreat - becasue u have libby.

If you think gk has it bad .. what about chaos terminators? Not much of an issue because chaos does have other options instead of purchasing terminators.

They have sorceror mechanics but still, if one unit gets retreat all units the same type should have it. In my personal opinnion, Retreat option for GK terminators was mistake.

I am not a huge fan of forcing a unit on someone. especially a specialist like a libby.

It rather works that way - if u want to play aggresive and use teleport as offensive option then get libby otherwise u will lose squad. Simple as that. Let it work the same as for SM.

Making paladins an upgrade does not actually solve anything. the main issue with them is how easy it was to get both them and terminators out. That right there means for your suggestion to work we would need to make the base terminator a call in and the paladins an upgrade to that. Otherwise we have the same issue where gk rushes for an easy terminator class unit.

I dont agree. If we will take away retreat option from them such unit can be kitted easly before will make any dmg to your army. 2ndly, without librarian GK will not be playing aggresivly with Terminators because he can lost them.

At this moment u can't make them a call in option without sth which will replace them in stronghold as t3 unit. For me it also should work that way - fielding elite units should be a reward for how good you perform through the whole game (units killed etc) but without proper replacer GK would have nothing worth to buy in T3. Maybe LRC as T3 unit built in base whould help but still not sure.

Sturnn wrote:Well, acutally I meant that firstly they were given reatreat becasue reasoning was that they dont have how to fall back after teleport. I also agree that player should be punished for bad move but giving them option as libby to get termies back to safety is ok imho. The same was told when we asked why SM Termies dont get reatreat - becasue u have libby.

I think the perk given by the libby is self contained , you most certainly don’t need it to do well with terminators, remember an upgraded libby is not exactly a cheap investment by any stretch of the imagination. Plus there was a time in the game's history where the libby did not exist. The lack of retreat is part fluff but also a balancer for all the perks terminators do get. A trade off for having suppression immunity, a massive hp per model pool and technically the best infantry armor type in the game. This particular bag of traits is unique to terminator class units.

I dont agree. If we will take away retreat option from them such unit can be kitted easly before will make any dmg to your army. 2ndly, without librarian GK will not be playing aggresivly with Terminators because he can lost them.

At this moment u can't make them a call in option without sth which will replace them in stronghold as t3 unit. For me it also should work that way - fielding elite units should be a reward for how good you perform through the whole game (units killed etc) but without proper replacer GK would have nothing worth to buy in T3. Maybe LRC as T3 unit built in base whould help but still not sure.

this is a rather inaccurate assumption.
1 while assault terminators (not under the influence of veil of time) are easily kite-able because they have no ranged weapons , gk terminators and paladins not only have ranged weapons .. they have damaging ranged weapons. So unless the unit you are kiting with happens to have vehicle armor a gk terminator / paladin can easily bleed models off of kiting units just by using their pierce damage.

2 again you dont need teleport to be aggressive. The large strength of terminators is the fact that they act like damage sponges (arguably the best in the game at doing this) You have to deal with them but doing so requires time and alot of it.

Even before this current patch terminators were extremely potent when used right. They were already being used aggressively without the need to use their teleport. The inclusion of retreat only made the act easier to do and less risky. Completely unnecessary.

So if your concern here is terminators being used aggressively. that will still happen since it always happened it just had a higher skill wall... But the larger point i want to make here is about access. What does your suggestion do really? makes paladins an upgrade to terminators. But the issue with paladins and terminators was how easy they are too get for what they do.

How would making the paladins an upgrade change that fact? Right now you can rush to t3 and buy paladins. what you are suggesting is rush to t3 to buy terminators and then upgrade them to paladins.....

the only real difference is you lose the call in. But i am wondering why that would need to happen. in terms of restriction the addition of ared cost does that part just fine. in terms to being too forgiving the removal of retreat does that fine. All in all I would think that would be enough changes.