forestradio wrote:kommando nob with grappling hook and his kaboom! ability is OP, you can instagib two whole termagaunt squads with it.
Been saying this for ages... Kaboom needs to disable all other abilities so he can't throw himself after he begins the detonation.
It's the hook that should disable abilities not the other way around.
That won't work because people activate kaboom THEN throw the hook in the time that it takes for the explosion to go off.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 11 Sep, 2013 6:30 pm
by Vapor
Helios wrote:
fv100 wrote:
Helios wrote: Been saying this for ages... Kaboom needs to disable all other abilities so he can't throw himself after he begins the detonation.
It's the hook that should disable abilities not the other way around.
That won't work because people activate kaboom THEN throw the hook in the time that it takes for the explosion to go off.
False. Have you ever tried it?
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 11 Sep, 2013 7:45 pm
by Kvek
fv100 wrote:
Helios wrote:
fv100 wrote: Been saying this for ages... Kaboom needs to disable all other abilities so he can't throw himself after he begins the detonation.
It's the hook that should disable abilities not the other way around.
That won't work because people activate kaboom THEN throw the hook in the time that it takes for the explosion to go off.
False. Have you ever tried it?[/quote]
*Hook then Kaboom, rite ? and ye tried it, op as fuck, it's just a flying kaboom...
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 11 Sep, 2013 7:52 pm
by Arbit
Interceptor retreat killing potential - When buffed by the improved WatH from the force sword and they have their T2 knockdown, these guys are pretty monstrous. I had some 3v3 games with handsome sodding whatever last night and I must admit I was raging a bit. He would give the WatH speed buff to his entire army, jump one of my units and then focus it down, with followup teleports as needed. I felt there was really nothing I could do about it, especially with canticle/silence shutting down my abilities and the interceptors constantly getting energy back from strikes/canticle. Generally against jump troops I can fall back and lure out the jump, play some mind games or whatever, but the instantaneous nature of interceptor's jump and WatH bringing the rest of the army into firing range really changes the game, so to speak.
Yes, this was a 3v3, but I don't see how it wouldn't be applicable to a 1v1/2v2
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 11 Sep, 2013 8:57 pm
by Helios
fv100 wrote:False. Have you ever tried it?
Several weeks ago so I may have forgotten which comes first but can't atm as I'm on a phone. The point is it needs to be fixed regardless of the order you cast the abilities.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 11 Sep, 2013 11:52 pm
by Forestradio
Arbit wrote:Interceptor retreat killing potential - When buffed by the improved WatH from the force sword and they have their T2 knockdown, these guys are pretty monstrous. I had some 3v3 games with handsome sodding whatever last night and I must admit I was raging a bit. He would give the WatH speed buff to his entire army, jump one of my units and then focus it down, with followup teleports as needed. I felt there was really nothing I could do about it, especially with canticle/silence shutting down my abilities and the interceptors constantly getting energy back from strikes/canticle. Generally against jump troops I can fall back and lure out the jump, play some mind games or whatever, but the instantaneous nature of interceptor's jump and WatH bringing the rest of the army into firing range really changes the game, so to speak.
Yes, this was a 3v3, but I don't see how it wouldn't be applicable to a 1v1/2v2
This does seem pretty cheesy, but keep in mind that interceptors with nemesis focus and justicar, bro-cap with improved force sword and canticle, and strike squad with justicar costs a hell of a lot of power.
Good way to counter this would be a walker vehicle, any time the interceptors jump your guys, focus them down. abilities like entangle (WSE), assashuns knife (Kommando Nob), and the inquisitor ability that immobilises(forgot its name) could also force a retreat on his interceptors.
At that point, your best bet is probably to get some sort of vehicle.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 12 Sep, 2013 4:43 pm
by Nurland
Helios wrote:
fv100 wrote:False. Have you ever tried it?
Several weeks ago so I may have forgotten which comes first but can't atm as I'm on a phone. The point is it needs to be fixed regardless of the order you cast the abilities.
I think it is kaboom, then hook. Never seen it in game I have played in but i've seen a vid about it. Seems like a too strong combination.
For fv100:
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 12 Sep, 2013 5:04 pm
by Kvek
You can't activate the Hook after activating kaboom.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 12 Sep, 2013 5:49 pm
by Vapor
Kvek has it right, also lol that's me doing it in the vid
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 12 Sep, 2013 6:07 pm
by Toilailee
Touch of nurgle needs longer cooldown ffs!!11
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 12 Sep, 2013 7:26 pm
by Batpimp
Toilailee wrote:Touch of nurgle needs longer cooldown ffs!!11
same thing with apoth purification vials. its got like a 15 second cooldown it feels!!
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 12 Sep, 2013 8:20 pm
by Nurland
Kvek has it right, also lol that's me doing it in the vid
Well in that case. Seems like I was wrong about it. Didn't know hook had such a long animation.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 12 Sep, 2013 10:16 pm
by Tex
Okay this is great guys! I'm getting lots of feedback here!
I will be home from work later in the day and I will make sure to present an updated list of things that are "on the bubble of OP or UP".
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Fri 13 Sep, 2013 10:55 am
by Magus Magi
Tex wrote:No worries bud, this is an anti-venom thread!
I appreciate that man. It speaks volumes about the quality of the players, and the mod developers, involved with ELITE.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 09 Oct, 2013 8:36 am
by Rataxas
UP : Prism HP IG sentinel in T2 Ogryns
OP : FC Nids Noise Marines Eldar Gates
and few more...
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 09 Oct, 2013 9:29 am
by Nuclear Arbitor
what is HP?
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 09 Oct, 2013 10:03 am
by Nurland
Uhh... Hit Points = Health. At least that would be my wild guess.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 09 Oct, 2013 3:23 pm
by saltychipmunk
op
T1 heretics t3 gaunt warrior upgrade cost of synapse spire global eldar web ways
up
non upgraded scouts ( almost no early game staying power till investments are made , forces you to run away and give up ground to other ranged units) T2 heretics Vanguard gk av the dark reapers , their upgrades are hella expensive
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 09 Oct, 2013 5:51 pm
by Flash
Keep in mind the gk ah is getting buffed in beta 5. I don't think there is going to be as much of a problem with vehicles anymore. Vanguard are also getting buffed. We'll see how that turns out
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 09 Oct, 2013 9:39 pm
by Toilailee
saltychipmunk wrote:non upgraded scouts ( almost no early game staying power till investments are made , forces you to run away and give up ground to other ranged units)
That's just how scouts are designed, they are not supposed to beat other ranged units without upgrades. It's how it's always been and how we are happy with them.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 09 Oct, 2013 10:37 pm
by Asmon
Indeed. They are swift and have large sight radius for a reason. They should not be forced off by any other ranged unit.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 09 Oct, 2013 11:33 pm
by Forestradio
Scouts are not UP. Even in 3v3 and 2v2, I usually go for a 2x scout build. Their capping power in 1v1 cannot be measured. Having an extra ranged unit around, even one that only does 21 dps, is invaluable. Keep one for shotguns/sergeant and leaving the other one default usually works for me.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Wed 09 Oct, 2013 11:48 pm
by FiSH
just to add onto what others have said about scouts: don't forget scouts' melee resist either, and super high melee skill with shotgun (this is the case in elite, in retail they just had high melee skill) so they usually survive melee attacks.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 10 Oct, 2013 12:22 am
by Black Relic
Nobs are OP in my opinion as they start leveling above 2. I would suggest take away their leveling, but have their starting health per model be increase to compensate. Since they can retreat and own almost any squads other than termies (until level 3 of course)in melee and tank some damage. Thoughts?
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 10 Oct, 2013 1:04 am
by Arbit
Another note on scouts - with the infiltration upgrade (elite training as it is called in Elite ) their health and energy regen is crazy good. With the elite upgrade and sarge they are actually pretty durable as long as you keep them hidden until the right moment and micro them into cover. The regen between fights keeps them from bleeding since they will be topped off on HP and energy practically every fight they get into. I regularly end 2v2/3v3 games with level four scouts since I've made an effort to get it every game. It's a really excellent upgrade that I think people tend to overlook.
Even un-upgraded they're fine. If you're microing them properly they should give you sight on your enemy and your opponent should never know they are there. Once the fighting starts I find I can slip them into cover on a flank somewhere and do decent damage to exposed dire avengers, GM, termagants, etc. Basically, the tactical advantage they give and low price offsets their bleh combat performance.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 10 Oct, 2013 1:26 am
by SirSid
=I find the whole SM army OP.
I know im just plain wrong about this, however when i play with them or against them i just find they have to many options. Instant AV , very good tanks, all units even scouts can scale well into t3 , war gear for each comander to counter play styles with 1 cheap purchus, powerfull jump units , a easy economy to manage ( u basicaly buy what u want when u want and it's all good with SM ) , extrem bleed resistance , strong map control, cheap upgrade for gen bashes in t1.
It's just my personal play style that makes fighting with SM to easy and fighting against them to hard. Thare balanced well and everything but for me personaly the race on a whole is just to strong.
=Swift movment global is totaly OP.
Not much to say about this it is just VERY strong
= Rangers are OP
This unit is the back bone of the eldar army for many reasons however i think they are just to usefull for prise. they scale to good into t3 and provide uses late game that make the eldar army MUCH more dangrous. I would like to see fleet of foot unlocked in t1 with a upgrade , then in t2 another upgrade to get thare infiltration and holo field.
= Swarm loard is OP
The unit coast 800/200 so it should be OP however if a player can get this unit on the field he win's the match. This unit is better than any other super unit by far IMO
=Cancel of absolution war gear for the BC is OP
This ability is just insane, it's a must get for any GK build insane utility and no draw back. A must buy wargear for any GK player
=Komand Nob Rocket wepon upgrade is OP
U can not combat this wargear at all , If u are playing against the Komando Nob u simply can not get tanks.
=Catachans improvised explosives are OP
I think this ability just dose to much damage plan and simpile, and what is with not being abel to pick off catachan models with snipers or rangers ? ?
=Force retreat war gear for the lictor alpha is OP
It's hard to call this war gear OP since it is rarley used however i use it evrey game , since it counters evrey singile dangrous unit in t2 and t3 vs all opponent .
= 3x warp spiders and comander warp spider is OP
So rare u see this unit comp used ( and for good reason it is dangrous to try to bring out ) however in 3v3 games whare it is easy to get out it is off the wall batty strong. 100% chance to whipe a squade evrey engagment.
Ok that's plenty for now hehe.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 10 Oct, 2013 5:48 am
by Kvek
SirSid wrote:=I find the whole SM army OP.
I know im just plain wrong about this, however when i play with them or against them i just find they have to many options. Instant AV , very good tanks, all units even scouts can scale well into t3 , war gear for each comander to counter play styles with 1 cheap purchus, powerfull jump units , a easy economy to manage ( u basicaly buy what u want when u want and it's all good with SM ) , extrem bleed resistance , strong map control, cheap upgrade for gen bashes in t1.
It's just my personal play style that makes fighting with SM to easy and fighting against them to hard. Thare balanced well and everything but for me personaly the race on a whole is just to strong.
lul, ur doing it wrong.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 10 Oct, 2013 9:42 am
by Dark Riku
Tex wrote:I have been reading and contributing on the forums pretty regularly now and I have a question for you fine folks: "What do you find is overpowered or underpowered"?
Keep in mind this thread is not meant for argument in any way and please be respectful of anyone who contributes. The sole purpose for my asking is so I can get some ideas for things to test.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 10 Oct, 2013 9:52 am
by Rataxas
wa1243agh wrote:Nobs are OP in my opinion as they start leveling above 2. I would suggest take away their leveling, but have their starting health per model be increase to compensate. Since they can retreat and own almost any squads other than termies (until level 3 of course)in melee and tank some damage. Thoughts?
Nobs are not OP , you have to compare their price to other units, upgrades are ( dont know ? ) 100/40 ? 80/40 ? and 100/30 ? maybe dunno ? any way upgrades are expensive as hell so act for fully upgraded nobs squad you can afford with ther race with 2 units to counter them, but, only problem is in basic nobs dps and hammers. I think options for stack the dps for nobs like 40% its to much , 10-15% would work enough. Also bais dps from nobs is poor , so , i think there should be change overe here , maybe like GK paladins / terminator. Basic DPS is good against infantry and got AOE in range 2-3. That would work great against tics / slugas / genstellers and other like this , cause 2 x GS with adrenal rush can beat nobs ( i think , not sure cause i checked that last time on retri !! there was tons of changes in elite mod till now).
So 2 x GS are still less cost then upgraded nobs squad. Hammers should be not heavy melee ( maybe only the squad ledder ) but power melee , and options for stack to 15% not more.
The main problem is in weirdboy , stikz , knob , mekboy , painboy , cause if we will combine some options ( combos ) with those heros, units and their globals we can have troubles to counter nobs with some races.
Re: Is it OP or is it UP?
Posted: Thu 10 Oct, 2013 10:13 am
by Dark Riku
@Rataxas. Could you get a little bit more order in your post please? Very hard to see what you are trying to say.
Not trying to debate anything because that is not the intend of this topic. Tex merely wanted some ideas here and your opinions. Not debates.
Now just clarifying some things here: Standard nobs only do a little bit less dps than paladins ~(170 vs 200) Nobs are good vs everything, not just infantry, they come with heavy melee.
