Dawn of War Codex

Its main gun has the lowest dps

Absolutely irrelevant, it does the exact same damage as sm/chaos predators.
https://dawnofwar.info/codex.php?page=elite/leman_russ

https://dawnofwar.info/codex.php?page=elite/predator

https://dawnofwar.info/codex.php?page=e ... s_predator

On top of that with the patch it gained +15 sight range (all other tanks have 40 vs leman's 55), so the upgrade it used to have has been integrated in the main cost (upgrade that was a 100% must buy), the leman or multiple of them are still harder to deal with than a BB due to their maneuverability and have better killing potential of both enemy vehicles and squads due to it's speed.

And I haven't yet taken into consideration on maps like Outher Reaches where a baneblade would be absolutely unplayable.

And on top of all of this it retains the "free" low dps lascannon on the front, so the leman is still the best tank in the game, except that now it will take a longer to repair and multiple lemans are still often the better and safer choice than a single baneblade and if anything with the HP and damage nerf the BB got hit by it feels significantly inferior to other superunits or even tanks.

Ace of Swords wrote:Absolutely irrelevant, it does the exact same damage as sm/chaos predators and as proved from time to time that spike damage > steady damage.

And the predator does the spike damage twice as often contrary to the russ who has to sit duck for 7 seconds after every shot. Hold fire alleviates the problem, yes, but it's still twice the wait for the next load of spike damage with the same AoE. Thought I didn't look at the codex before talking? Doesn't help that the predators have different T3 rosters with their respective land raiders that fulfill different purposes that don't overlap as much as the russ and baneblade do.

Ace of Swords wrote:(upgrade that was a 100% must buy)

There are times where the upgrade could've been stalled for the sake of getting another unit out or getting the russ out faster till the moment was necessary to buy it, because other units could spot for the russ if it had the vanquisher cannon, because the normal cannon only has 4 more range than its sight.

Ace of Swords wrote:And I haven't yet taken into consideration on maps like Outher Reaches where a baneblade would be absolutely unplayable.

Which is why I specifically brought to attention the better agility of the russ when it comes to choosing which one to get.

Ace of Swords wrote:And on top of all of this it retains the "free" low dps lascannon on the front

Which is absolutely useless vs most non-vehicles due to its accuracy, in which case if you're getting the russ in response to a vehicle you upgrade it to a vanquisher cannon with a range of 55 while the front lascannon only has a range of 38. That is, unless the opponent didn't get proper AV vs IG that allows you to drive up to them.

Just to drive my point further, I'm not complaining about the russ or the baneblade as units as I have previously said, I'm complaining about their roles starting to merge and there being less clear reasons to get one over the other now that economy has gone out the window due to the final price of an upgraded russ being similar to a baneblade. Not to mention there's nothing preventing someone from getting that 1-limit BB AND russes as pop and resources allow with the cost buff on the BB.

Not to mention there's nothing preventing someone from getting that 1-limit BB AND russes as pop and resources allow with the cost buff on the BB.

There is, it's called upkeep, getting a second leman or even a third after the first one will be much faster than getting a BB and then a leman.

Unless you are LG of course, in that case you could attempt a bb into leman, but honestly I don't see why you wouldn't just field multiple lemans faster.

Ace of Swords wrote:There is, it's called upkeep, getting a second leman or even a third after the first one will be much faster than getting a BB and then a leman.

Unless you are LG of course, in that case you could attempt a bb into leman, but honestly I don't see why you wouldn't just field multiple lemans faster.

By preventing I meant actual preventions like a cop breathing down your neck, not a system of deterrents and punishments that still allow you to do that if you wished to.

Black Relic wrote:So if you want it in line with other tanks we can give its 700 hp and better rotation speed and an armor upgrade that increases its HP by 200. But it wont ever get its damage resistance back though. That was the reason why it was broken in the first place. And its large HP increase was to compensate for that. And if you can accept that then too bad. It still has the tanky ness it had last patch it now just takes longer than before to repair plain and simple.

Shold see.

Black Relic wrote:The BB should not have good capability vs SHI heavy melee. Every thing in the game needs some sort of weakness. Name one thing in this game that doesn't have counter to it please.

And what BB roll on game? What? It did nothing//

Black Relic wrote:The BB cost reducetion also allows it to hit the feild faster and now you can also get another squad if needed. IDk about you but now that i can pretty much get a BB and a HWT (to help suppress the Heavy melee) for the same price as a BB sounds good to me.

Ou yes, and the fact that this is the slowest unit in the game, and its vitality is directly dependent on hp, how about it? Now we simpl hawe slow batlwagon. Great/

I don't get why Space Marine Plasma Devastators are immune to LC flare. I don't see why it should be an exception.

Impregnable wrote:I don't get why Space Marine Plasma Devastators are immune to LC flare. I don't see why it should be an exception.

Because they cause so much pain to IG, and because "we can".

Would it be possible to have Nemesis Vortex create its own icon in the squad list? If you spawn it in a big fight in the middle of your own troops, it can be tricky to target, and it only lives for 5 seconds now.

Impregnable wrote:I don't get why Space Marine Plasma Devastators are immune to LC flare. I don't see why it should be an exception.

Blastmaster is also immune too.

I cannot start 2.6.0 without reporting error. There is no "Elite" document in the vanilla one. If there is anything wrong? I have already reinstall Retribution and that does not change

Psycho wrote:

Impregnable wrote:I don't get why Space Marine Plasma Devastators are immune to LC flare. I don't see why it should be an exception.

Blastmaster is also immune too.

And the reason is?

Kesarj wrote:I cannot start 2.6.0 without reporting error. There is no "Elite" document in the vanilla one. If there is anything wrong? I have already reinstall Retribution and that does not change

What do you mean by this? How are you launching the game, because Elite installs it's own shortcut which is how to access the mod.

_4ut_ wrote:

Black Relic wrote:The BB should not have good capability vs SHI heavy melee. Every thing in the game needs some sort of weakness. Name one thing in this game that doesn't have counter to it please.

And what BB roll on game? What? It did nothing//

Black Relic wrote:The BB cost reducetion also allows it to hit the feild faster and now you can also get another squad if needed. IDk about you but now that i can pretty much get a BB and a HWT (to help suppress the Heavy melee) for the same price as a BB sounds good to me.

Ou yes, and the fact that this is the slowest unit in the game, and its vitality is directly dependent on hp, how about it? Now we simpl hawe slow batlwagon. Great/

1st this mod is balanced purely on 1v1. IDK about you but the BB is easier to get out in 1v1 (still not saying much tbh) but is less of a bullet sponge. Even though it still can take a fair beating. Although i would still get a leman instead of waiting for a BB tbh.

2nd would you rather have it be reverted and it never been seen in a 1v1 and still be shit in 3v3 by being a large resource dump? Or would you rather it have a purpose in 1v1 even though it never have a purpose in 3v3 in the first pace.

Impregnable wrote:I don't get why Space Marine Plasma Devastators are immune to LC flare. I don't see why it should be an exception.

Because it's not intentional and I haven't figured out why it happens yet.

Wise Windu wrote:

Impregnable wrote:I don't get why Space Marine Plasma Devastators are immune to LC flare. I don't see why it should be an exception.

Because it's not intentional and I haven't figured out why it happens yet.

Does the spotter smoke shell work on Plasma devs?

Tinibombini wrote:

Wise Windu wrote:

Impregnable wrote:I don't get why Space Marine Plasma Devastators are immune to LC flare. I don't see why it should be an exception.

Because it's not intentional and I haven't figured out why it happens yet.

Does the spotter smoke shell work on Plasma devs?

It should, but if it has same problem as flare, then maybe not. I guess we'll need someone to verify that.

Off topic..can you add in the OP thread the fact that 2.6 overwrites pervious versions and nothing special necessary is done.

also can you add the links to Microsoft needed downloads

Batpimp wrote:Off topic..can you add in the OP thread the fact that 2.6 overwrites pervious versions and nothing special necessary is done.

also can you add the links to Microsoft needed downloads

What do you mean by the first one?

And also, the Microsoft thing so far is only something you've reported, so I don't really know what to look for.

Psycho wrote:Its main gun has the lowest dps of all tanks and the included upfront cost rules out situations where you want that cheaper and inferior russ out without the upgrade. An upgrade is basically necessary if you don't want it to be purely a bullet sponge, which a chimera would be unless you're getting shot up so much that it's too risky to have it tank damage even with catas' smoke grenade. With the lowered cost of the BB that once allowed you to get two russes in terms of req and almost in terms of power (125 vs 200), you might as well save up a little more to get a BB.

Only reasons to get a russ rather than a baneblade are now if you want something shittier with greater agility or are in such a bad situation that you can't afford to wait for 125 req and 45 power for something that does the role of bullet sponge better anyways. This is taking the unupgraded russ' price, because otherwise the difference would be between 5req/25 power or the russ being actually more expensive by 15 req with the same power difference.

I'm not complaining about either russ or baneblade, but that the line between what purposes they serve is starting to blur. Personally I'd have wanted the russ to get a wee bit weaker and cheaper to go along with the BB's new cost to put the russ as the cheap yet mass produceable tank in comparison like the shermans in CoH with the armor doctrine, so that they serve unique purposes, obviously refined since this is purely an idea I came up with in less than a minute.

Its bolters and lascannons still do the same damage. Its main cannon still does huge chunks of damage per shot that seriously dents most squads and vehicles and its demolisher cannon is still forcing off squads instantly or straight up wiping them. It has a clearly defined role now as a heavy weapons platform. You park it up with minimal support in an area and it covers that area in an arc in front of it making sure if the enemy attacks from that direction they are heavily punished. It is far stronger on defense than it is offence. And better against mass armies than it is countering enemy tanks.

However it becomes far more vulnerable to pincer attacks, especially by heavy melee. And while in a head-on fight no tank can come close to taking it on, the baneblade cannot chase down tanks whereas with the right timing tanks can chase down the baneblade to finish it off quite easily. So, treat it like a giant d-cannon I'd say. That's the role it is meant to have. It isn't meant to kill everything on its own. Just like any tank in real life - they need support. Demo-charges, mines on the ground, explosives that target under-armour or over-armour, whatever it is. You don't just send a tank in on an open battlefield on its own. You support it. And with support the current baneblade kicks utter ass, just as it did before. Saw it on stream the other day even, make one VP utterly impossible for the enemies to take with a few heavy bolter weapon teams supporting and 2x guardsmen + a repair bunker.

All these traits clearly contrast with your leman which due to its speed and straight-up damage output is better at targetting single squads or vehicles. The range and speed granted by the vanquisher cannon is your primary tank destroyer in T3. It is less susceptible to melee due to its speed and smaller size and that also helps it avoid flanks. But it just cannot do enough damage to an oncoming army to remotely compete with the baneblade - nor can it absorb as much frontal punishment. The roles are quite distinct in my opinion.

Valid points, I suppose. Thanks for taking the time to write this.

Just to throw it out there, one thing I don't like about the baneblade is how it wants to turn around on its own as if it was turret-less unlike the other tanks.

Swiftsabre wrote:

Kesarj wrote:I cannot start 2.6.0 without reporting error. There is no "Elite" document in the vanilla one. If there is anything wrong? I have already reinstall Retribution and that does not change

What do you mean by this? How are you launching the game, because Elite installs it's own shortcut which is how to access the mod.

I do start from the shortcut on desktop but it only reports error. I find that the installer i download is about 950m's large which is different from 990m indicated in the downloading page. Maybe that is the cause while i can only get that 950m version after trying many times.

And i cannot find a document called "elite" in the root directory of retribution but that exists for V2.5.1

Kesarj wrote:

Swiftsabre wrote:

Kesarj wrote:I cannot start 2.6.0 without reporting error. There is no "Elite" document in the vanilla one. If there is anything wrong? I have already reinstall Retribution and that does not change

What do you mean by this? How are you launching the game, because Elite installs it's own shortcut which is how to access the mod.

I do start from the shortcut on desktop but it only reports error. I find that the installer i download is about 950m's large which is different from 990m indicated in the downloading page. Maybe that is the cause while i can only get that 950m version after trying many times.

And i cannot find a document called "elite" in the root directory of retribution but that exists for V2.5.1

Did you install it to the same drive as your retribution folder?

Swiftsabre wrote:

Kesarj wrote:

Swiftsabre wrote:What do you mean by this? How are you launching the game, because Elite installs it's own shortcut which is how to access the mod.

I do start from the shortcut on desktop but it only reports error. I find that the installer i download is about 950m's large which is different from 990m indicated in the downloading page. Maybe that is the cause while i can only get that 950m version after trying many times.

And i cannot find a document called "elite" in the root directory of retribution but that exists for V2.5.1

Did you install it to the same drive as your retribution folder?

Hmm..... i find out the problem, there is another retribution folder. Thank you very much

You're very welcome.

Well, hi again.
I've been carbon monoxide poisoning by Excel, and decided to organize buff and nerf in 2.6
And that's what I got:
Bufs Minor Nerfs

1. Chaos Space Marines - 11 0 30
2. Eldar - 31 7 24
3. Imperial Guard - 21 13 19
4. Ordo Malleus - 102 16 44
5. Orks - 16 2 21
6. Space Marines - 30 2 10
7. Tyranids - 25 5 25

It's not very objective statistics on the reasons. And for reasons that I am not equally good for understanding all fractions. Maybe somewhere it was a misunderstanding. If someone wants to fix the table itself to be here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... usp=шаринг

Position sum make in Excel using VB, how to do this in tables google not understand.

Also, I have a lot of questions around this. But I basically know what the answers will be. But what I do not understand is why the sergeant and acolyte at GK OM ST received malee skill equivalent heroes 70!? They ninja or something? For example DA Exarch have 50!

What are you trying to show us with this table?

Adeptus Noobus wrote:What are you trying to show us with this table?

The truth. Which is not so easy to see behind a wall of text.

_4ut_ wrote:

Adeptus Noobus wrote:What are you trying to show us with this table?

The truth. Which is not so easy to see behind a wall of text.

And which truth would that be. It was a very genuine question. I do not know what you are getting at.

Adeptus Noobus wrote:And which truth would that be. It was a very genuine question. I do not know what you are getting at.

I suppose he is saying that the ol'n'gud "Chaos OP, pls nerf" motto was being a bit overused in the lastest patches, if we have in mind the buff/nerf ratio. And I agree with him partially. Some changes are needed for the balance sake, others IMHO seems a bit "For the LULZ"

In the worst case, he is insinuating the also ol'n'gud "Z now mains X and that's because he nerfs Y".