Dawn of War Codex

Maybe you should be able to attack your own mines to detonate?

hmm youre right that an army would eventually blow itself up.
but when a commissar drops his mines on an army and the mines detonate even if they are detecetd its quite the same. mines would explode like crazy.

actually i agree that there should be no change (to the detecting system) at all.

but when a commissar drops his mines on an army and the mines detonate even if they are detecetd its quite the same. mines would explode like crazy.

It will not be broken since you cannot spam it because this ability costs red. And mines will have to arm before they will start exploding.
Same with mekboy's mine. He throws them and you avoid it. It is even easier than avoiding grenades. Mines require 3 seconds to arm.

actually i agree that there should be no change (to the detecting system) at all.

Yeah, let's keep it useless.

Sub_Zero wrote:Yeah, let's keep it useless.

Mines are far from useless -.- Already argued about before why.

Sub_zero what kind of answer do you expect from people when you keep repeating such things? Mines are very useful just as booby traps and improvised explosives are, even when your opponent has detectors on the field. That's it.

Now that it has been explained the mine detection system is fine, only new ideas are welcome.

Mines are very useful just as booby traps and improvised explosives are, even when your opponent has detectors on the field.

Yes they are... Melee squads run past them. Ranged blobs stay on them and nothing you can do about it. But you will be punished by your own mines if enemy destroys them and you accidentally place your own units near them.

Well, I am done. The majority disagreed with me and repeating same things really become pointless. Nothing will be fixed.

Sub_Zero wrote: Nothing will be fixed.

Kinda pointless to fix something that isn't broken.

Sub_Zero wrote:

Mines are very useful just as booby traps and improvised explosives are, even when your opponent has detectors on the field.

Yes they are... Melee squads run past them. Ranged blobs stay on them and nothing you can do about it. But you will be punished by your own mines if enemy destroys them and you accidentally place your own units near them.

Well, I am done. The majority disagreed with me and repeating same things really become pointless. Nothing will be fixed.

mines in retreat, improvised in retreat/even booby traps in retreat path no probrum wiping your army out

OK I will make some points why current system makes mines bad.

1) Requires no skill to counter it. If you have a detector then you counter it. The detection range allows to spot mines and make them completely useless.

2) Your own mines play against you since the detector is on the field. Your own mines can be detonated when your units stand on them.

3) Unit-detectors are invulnerable to mines. No punish for catachans, shoota boyz etc at all. Even you if you blindly send them to cap a point and mines are on their way.

Solutions I would like to see:

1) You can destroy your own mines anytime you like.

2) Mines detonate ALWAYS even they are being detected

Impovised explosives are always good. Even if your opponent has a detector. Because they are really hard to spot and can be detonated anytime you like.

Why don't you want to improve usefullness of any kind of mines?

is the enemy mine ,auto targeted/fired' if u press A+click?

No.

Raise from the dead, my dear thread, for I have new points that should be heard.

You are OK that mines get countered just by getting a detector. It means that you don't need to do anything specific to counter mines. Just stick any detector to your army and you will be fine.

Hence mines should have a HUGE effect if they get detonated. I will try to suggest buffs for certain mines since not all of them give you a great edge to prevail over your opponent.

Let's start with the Mek Boy mines. You get them for 100 / 20 in T1. With one use of the ability you can place 4 mines (very randomly to be honest) that do 20 explosive damage, weapon knockback and a short supression on affected squads, also these mines snare vehicles for 30 seconds (!). What buffs these mines deserve? At the moment it is worth getting these mines only to deal with vehicles. They don't have a great effect on infantry. I suggest to buff them so these mines would supress units for a longer amount of time. 5 seconds? 6 seconds? 7 seconds? But definetely a longer supression than we have now. But 30 seconds vehicle snare is a crazy thing. This should be nerfed a bit.

Ravener's Alpha "mines" are pretty good at the moment. They stun enemies for 10 seconds. They will allow you to win any engagement if your opponent's units walked over them. It is worth to get them do deal with infantry. That is a good example how true mines should be like

Techmarine's mines do more damage than Mek Boy mines but they snare vehicles for only 15 seconds and supress infantry for the same amount of time as Mek Boy mines do. Here I would apply the buff that I suggested for Mek Boy mines. Longer supression. To give an edge for your troops.

P. S. I am still not pleased with the current system and I do not see that anybody uses mines. Catachans' IE are still OP.

there is no such thing as longer suppression, it works by mines dealing courage damage and then the unit recovering from that. that said, if you want to have longer suppression duration, then you will need another source of courage damage, hence two explosions or something, which seems unnatural to me.

buffing mines should be no easy decision. before i started playing orks, i used to play eldar, and techmarine mines annoyed me beyond belief. mines perform differently in different matchups, and in some they are fantastic, and especially so in 1v1. i think in that regard, mines are fine.

finally, mekboy mine's different than the others because it needs to be used differently - more like commissar global mines. i absolutely agree with you that mekboy mines may seem underwhelming, but keep in mind that they have their role. they are good at area denial (as tex once demonstrated in a redrupee co-cast). use it alongside mek's deff gun and you will lock down some map no problem.

Of course the effect can disable courage regeneration for a time, or apply the courage damage each second for a while, or something. Don't take such absolute stances on technical points unless you know.

Not commenting balance wise. Except the extremely long vehicle stun seems like an oversight.

i do perfectly know how suppression works, which is why i said "you will need another source of courage damage, hence two explosions or something" where something refers to any other method of courage damage (such as ones you've mentioned). nonetheless, the animation of a mine detonation followed by prolonged courage damage is unnatural, which is, yet again, how i stated the first reply.

lulgrim's right. There's abilities that also disable courage regen for a number of seconds. Thus, those abilities will supress for longer than others basing on the length of disabled courage regen modifier

that's true, i left out courage regen. my mistake.

At the moment mines have their best use against Eldar. Because not always Eldar field rangers and not always they are close enough to detect (I do know that they have the best detection range in the game)

Grey Knights just pay 15 energy to get a detector, shoota boyz with a nob leader is a standart thing to see, warriors are always on the field, IG have 2 sources of detection. From all my experience mines work good only against Eldar.

And I am not sure you need mines to lock an area. The deff gun will do the job.

Playing as Mek Boy I get mines only if I need to deal with a vehicle. I don't even hope to see mines working against infantry. And one thing when opponent destroys mines and that gives me some time to attack him and not be attacked but other thing when he knows that nothing will happen if his units walk over mines. He just engages me like he always do. And if he loses he retreats his units and if he wins he destroys all mines afterwards. And in retreat only in rare cases units can be hit by mines. Even in retreat you run over mines

When I created the thread about cats' IE my point was that every mine had to work like that. And I brought examples how my opponent simply fails to spot explosives and I hurt him. In some cases your opponent may fail to spot mines and walk over them accidently. And he gets no punishment. Not fair, this game is not about it. Maybe this will be a wrong example but do my opponent become supression resistant if he has assault marines? No, he gotta find a supression team, make sure that there is no other supression team, press J, select a place on the ground, left mouse button click, right mouse button click to attack. Here he would have to be always beware of mines and watch for them if we would have gotten a detection system that I suggest. But no he can just walk over them.