Dawn of War Codex

Atlas wrote:EDIT: I also said 4 core and no experience with MOBAs so idk :/

Yeah, I don't really know exactly what the line of NDA is now, but my impressions of the game has been a net positive. It has some flaws, but they are fixable flaws that you don't need to remake the game from the ground up to address.

DoWIII's core is a lot more solid than DoWII's is imo, and I think the gap between a bad player and a good player is going to be distinctly noticeable by how many squads they can keep alive. One of the aspects of the game that really shines is how punishing it is to blobbing, and the discouragement of sim-city in the back. Keeping you army alive is pretty vital to winning games, or at least it was in beta.

I don't think it really matters if you do somehow can your squads alive the devs already said their no Retreat no vet or levelling so what the point of keeping them alive even the super units only cost time if they did not cost money. punishing blobing the only thing I seem that's does that is the no FRENDLY FIRING IMPERIAL KNIGHT ABILITIES and the eldars I guess it called Psychic Storm? keeping your Amy alive is what I hope rts game is about here you can just throw them away and just build more cos you wont lose anything hence this game will get boring to play after a while

There is no Retreat function or veterancy in vDoW, but squad preservation is directly linked to being able to contest and maintain map control. Given the overarching similarities between those principles in vDoW and the apparently gameplay in DoW III, this makes sense.

The core gameplay loop isn't based on DoW II, it's a more conventional RTS. The impact from DoW II comes from Elite unit drafting (i.e. Commander picks / influence from CoH 2) and the emphasis on micro to make best use of powerful abilities (which vDoW didn't feature so much. Grenades there were nothing like the grenades in DoW II).

in dow squad preservation is mainly down to how long your squad can auto reinforce anywhere on the map in dow3 that's only around your base and in dow their no vet but have to take morale into account and least their cover that can be use not bubble shields

Is there no veterancy in DOW3? That would be a shame

KanKrusha wrote:Is there no veterancy in DOW3? That would be a shame

No

GuruSkippy wrote:What do you mean by that ? if you can/want to answer of course.
On the videos we are seeing, it seems there are buildings everywhere, but maybe it's an impression, because the building icons on mini map are pretty big.

In "standard" RTS games that build bases, typically you would build your production structures far behind the battle lines. This makes sense, as the only benefit the buildings normally have is in the production of units and, in Relic games, the retreat function always takes the unit to the "main" staging area by default. This would lead players to tend to group up all their production and defense structures into one location and, at its worst, basically just add and add more turrets, barracks and whatever structures into some giant unassailable mega-fortress. I've heard it both called camping and simcity, after the game where you slowly build up over time.

Because of the benefits that buildings provide and the importance of protecting points (not to mention the ages it takes to go from core to front line) means that the game heavily encourages the establishment of forward bases instead of just planting them all way back. This gives actual relevance to having the structures as opposed to the DoWII style of having 1 stronghold.

Someone who builds their production farther up (and I've seem some players just build right at the contested point in mid of map) makes the design change relevant and puts a lot of spice to this aspect of the game imo.

boss wrote:I don't think.....the only thing that I seem that's does that is the no FRENDLY FIRING IMPERIAL KNIGHT ABILITIES and the eldars I guess it called Psychic Storm?.... hence this game will get boring to play after a while

The emphases are mine, because I see this kind of thinking come up a lot lately. I get the feeling many people are just coming up with stuff to support whatever argument they want, positive or negative. boss is not the only one doing this, but he's the first that's trying to argue against a point I made with such imaginative logic. Afaik, there is going to be an open beta after the second closed beta per Guru's report. I highly suggest giving that a shot before you tell me how right/wrong the feedback is.

yea no I not the only who thinks this game wont last long I only found out about this channel thanks to dow3 least it did something for me but what this guy says just sum up a lot of dow3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGCf_fYdTfA
and just read the comments I don't see a single good post about it. we the players are always wrong but relic is always right hence why coh2 is dying and dow2 is only alive thanks to elite mod but relic not wrong ok

Atlas wrote:In "standard" RTS games that build bases, typically you would build your production structures far behind the battle lines. This makes sense, as the only benefit the buildings normally have is in the production of units and, in Relic games, the retreat function always takes the unit to the "main" staging area by default. This would lead players to tend to group up all their production and defense structures into one location and, at its worst, basically just add and add more turrets, barracks and whatever structures into some giant unassailable mega-fortress. I've heard it both called camping and simcity, after the game where you slowly build up over time.

I don't think that's very typical, for example in one of the classic RTS games Age of Empires, production buildings are spammed as far forward as possible to reinforce offensive pushes.

Boss, all the things you're saying make no sense. A-moving a blob gets heavily punished. You CAN destroy bases, but the power core is what ends the game. There is a concede. There are only reinforcements around your production buildings unless something else is traited to do so. Any 'lane' feeling is just map specific, like Argus in DoW 2. That Arch Warhammer guy is just being extremely negative for views. Ignore him. Won't go into any specifics until open beta.

GuruSkippy wrote:Fuck, everyone was in the beta but me it seems.
FUCK FUCK FUCK

I didn't get in from the survey. I got in by saying I'm from GameReplays and then the devs gave me a key Of course I have work to do and am not just playing though. In progress of some guides so people in the open beta don't go in as blind as us closed beta guys.

the fact that amoving blobs is a thing is just derp, A-moving a blob gets heavily punished yea just build more, that's works dow3 is the next rts right from the game play I seen you build some bases, build stuff, blob, amove see which blob wins move up abit build more base and keep doing till you reach their base kill win zzzzzzzzzz I hope for abit more for the next dow3 RTS in 2017 the fact the thay are trying to turn warhammer 40k an rts game in table top and pc into a moba is just faceplam. also you think That Arch Warhammer guy is just being extremely negative for views you seen nothing yet he was trying to keep an open mind and paying that something good might come form this

Boss, play the game once it's open beta You'll see how the game actually is then.

NOT A MOBA GUYS NOT IMAGINING ANYTHING http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017- ... -influence

Jeez boss, at this point you're just becoming a caricature.

So let me get this straight, when I made a comment about how a lot of people are just projecting their opinions of the game to be truth, you first tell me just how many people agree with you, then follow it up by doubling down on your ignorance and continuing to enlighten us on how the game works.

A lot of you DoWIII haters remind me an awful lot of the DoWII haters when that was being released.

EDIT: In Agu's link, the last two paragraphs are of particular note.

The most encouraging sign for me is that after playing Dawn of War 3 for four hours straight, I left wanting for more. It's a huge amount of fun, and whatever your take on the mechanics of the thing, what is certain is that Relic has once again nailed the Warhammer 40k feel. You can tell the studio lives and breathes 40k by the way the Orks move, by the way they stomp around, shouting at each other, beating their drums and screaming bloody murder. For years Relic has done 40k better than any other developer, and I see no reason why Dawn of War 3 will change that.

Not everyone will be enthused by this new direction for Dawn of War 3, and I get that. In truth, the game feels like a curious hybrid of not just RTS and MOBA, but of the first two Dawn of War games. It's an interesting mishmash of games and genres. Yes, it's different, but then it had to be. I get the sense that Relic is taking a long-term view with Dawn of War 3, one informed by the hope the eSports community will pick it up. As interest in the RTS genre waned, Dawn of War had to change, and Dawn of War 3 is Relic's answer.

I have like 99% confidence that how you feel about these comments determines whether or not you're a DoWII purist.

boss wrote:yea no I not the only who thinks this game wont last long I only found out about this channel thanks to dow3 least it did something for me but what this guy says just sum up a lot of dow3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGCf_fYdTfA
and just read the comments I don't see a single good post about it. we the players are always wrong but relic is always right hence why coh2 is dying and dow2 is only alive thanks to elite mod but relic not wrong ok

Lmao you link Arch the scrub. The only thing he knows is lore at everything else he is extremely bad. I guess you are one of his followers that parrots everything he says even though a lot of people pointed out that your or hes statements dont really add up. People wanted a game like DoW1 and DoW2 combined and relic provided. You have big armies, you have base building and you have Elites (heroes) with abilities to use which are like in DoW2. The most amazing part is people obsess about the bullshit reasons for why this game can be criticised, muh moba, muh cover system, muh model movement, muh sync-kills. It was already discussed to death that people want an actual game they can play instead of a riddled bug fest, where the holy cow which is apparently DoW2 cover system didnt work half of the time and sync kills wrestle control from the player which leads to fits of rage from the said player. If you plan to critize the game, then at least have some decency to point out actual flaws or design choices, like the turrets and core business. For example i dont like the notion of the Turret since it limits the aggressive potential of a player that has the upper hand making it a built in comeback mechanic by design which i dont support.

Atlas wrote:Jeez boss, at this point you're just becoming a caricature.

So let me get this straight, when I made a comment about how a lot of people are just projecting their opinions of the game to be truth, you first tell me just how many people agree with you, then follow it up by doubling down on your ignorance and continuing to enlighten us on how the game works.

A lot of you DoWIII haters remind me an awful lot of the DoWII haters when that was being released.

EDIT: In Agu's link, the last two paragraphs are of particular note.

The most encouraging sign for me is that after playing Dawn of War 3 for four hours straight, I left wanting for more. It's a huge amount of fun, and whatever your take on the mechanics of the thing, what is certain is that Relic has once again nailed the Warhammer 40k feel. You can tell the studio lives and breathes 40k by the way the Orks move, by the way they stomp around, shouting at each other, beating their drums and screaming bloody murder. For years Relic has done 40k better than any other developer, and I see no reason why Dawn of War 3 will change that.

Not everyone will be enthused by this new direction for Dawn of War 3, and I get that. In truth, the game feels like a curious hybrid of not just RTS and MOBA, but of the first two Dawn of War games. It's an interesting mishmash of games and genres. Yes, it's different, but then it had to be. I get the sense that Relic is taking a long-term view with Dawn of War 3, one informed by the hope the eSports community will pick it up. As interest in the RTS genre waned, Dawn of War had to change, and Dawn of War 3 is Relic's answer.

I have like 99% confidence that how you feel about these comments determines whether or not you're a DoWII purist.

no i disagree with you there atlas i hated dow2 and i still do to this day i started with dow1

In truth, the game feels like a curious hybrid of not just RTS and MOBA, but of the first two Dawn of War games.

Sounds good to me.

They can keep their shit.

Carnevour wrote:

boss wrote:yea no I not the only who thinks this game wont last long I only found out about this channel thanks to dow3 least it did something for me but what this guy says just sum up a lot of dow3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGCf_fYdTfA
and just read the comments I don't see a single good post about it. we the players are always wrong but relic is always right hence why coh2 is dying and dow2 is only alive thanks to elite mod but relic not wrong ok

Lmao you link Arch the scrub. The only thing he knows is lore at everything else he is extremely bad. I guess you are one of his followers that parrots everything he says even though a lot of people pointed out that your or hes statements dont really add up. People wanted a game like DoW1 and DoW2 combined and relic provided. You have big armies, you have base building and you have Elites (heroes) with abilities to use which are like in DoW2. The most amazing part is people obsess about the bullshit reasons for why this game can be criticised, muh moba, muh cover system, muh model movement, muh sync-kills. It was already discussed to death that people want an actual game they can play instead of a riddled bug fest, where the holy cow which is apparently DoW2 cover system didnt work half of the time and sync kills wrestle control from the player which leads to fits of rage from the said player. If you plan to critize the game, then at least have some decency to point out actual flaws or design choices, like the turrets and core business. For example i dont like the notion of the Turret since it limits the aggressive potential of a player that has the upper hand making it a built in comeback mechanic by design which i dont support.

>I only found out about this channel thanks to dow3
> I guess you are one of his followers that parrots everything he says
>how do you only find a channel and suddenly turn into a follower that parrots everything the content creator says?

Shroom wrote:

Carnevour wrote:

boss wrote:yea no I not the only who thinks this game wont last long I only found out about this channel thanks to dow3 least it did something for me but what this guy says just sum up a lot of dow3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGCf_fYdTfA
and just read the comments I don't see a single good post about it. we the players are always wrong but relic is always right hence why coh2 is dying and dow2 is only alive thanks to elite mod but relic not wrong ok

Lmao you link Arch the scrub. The only thing he knows is lore at everything else he is extremely bad. I guess you are one of his followers that parrots everything he says even though a lot of people pointed out that your or hes statements dont really add up. People wanted a game like DoW1 and DoW2 combined and relic provided. You have big armies, you have base building and you have Elites (heroes) with abilities to use which are like in DoW2. The most amazing part is people obsess about the bullshit reasons for why this game can be criticised, muh moba, muh cover system, muh model movement, muh sync-kills. It was already discussed to death that people want an actual game they can play instead of a riddled bug fest, where the holy cow which is apparently DoW2 cover system didnt work half of the time and sync kills wrestle control from the player which leads to fits of rage from the said player. If you plan to critize the game, then at least have some decency to point out actual flaws or design choices, like the turrets and core business. For example i dont like the notion of the Turret since it limits the aggressive potential of a player that has the upper hand making it a built in comeback mechanic by design which i dont support.

>I only found out about this channel thanks to dow3
> I guess you are one of his followers that parrots everything he says
>how do you only find a channel and suddenly turn into a follower that parrots everything the content creator says?

Cuz LARPing isnt a thing.

ignorance more like disappointment of this game we waited for what 3 years and this is the best they can do really, enlighten more like seeing the gameplay If you don't like that then sorry this is the dow3 I seeing what the game plays out if you don't like that don't bitch on me this is what your going to pay 60 euros or what it would be for you on your new game I thought you like to hear about your new great game and how it plays im not going to tell you to not buy it I never said that on head and buy it with relic Balancing im sure it would do great , KAPPA .

Also for Carnevour I only found Arch channel 3 or 4 weeks ago cos someone link one of his early vides of dow3 on other forums I do happened to agree on a lot of what he says about dow3 but sure I guess I look to him as my new god which I worship all day and quote I guess you are one of his followers that parrots everything he says even though a lot of people pointed out that your or hes statements dont really add up. idiot.

People wanted a game like DoW1 and DoW2 combined and relic provided. You have big armies, you have base building and you have Elites (heroes) with abilities to use which are like in DoW2. The most amazing part is people obsess about the bullshit reasons for why this game can be criticised, muh moba, muh cover system, muh model movement, muh sync-kills. It was already discussed to death that people want an actual game they can play instead of a riddled bug fest, where the holy cow which is apparently DoW2 cover system didnt work half of the time and sync kills wrestle control from the player which leads to fits of rage from the said player. If you plan to critize the game, then at least have some decency to point out actual flaws or design choices, like the turrets and core business. For example i dont like the notion of the Turret since it limits the aggressive potential of a player that has the upper hand making it a built in comeback mechanic by design which i dont support.

maybe if relic to spent their time to fix their games instead of leave their games bug fest but relic did nothing wrong right kappa just a thought also we want an rts game of dow not moba other wise don't bother calling it dow, big amies base building we already have that in dow1 with sync kills but with better looking units yet old as fuck so instead of making a better game that went 5 steps backwoods but hey you see soon I cant wait for it to fail then maybe people well final see what relic should never make games again

GOD DAMMIT USE BASIC GRAMMAR AND SENTENCE STRUCTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meh, I let the broken English go. I'm pretty sure English is boss' second language so w/e.

boss wrote:maybe if relic to spent their time to fix their games instead of leave their games bug fest but relic did nothing wrong right kappa just a thought also we want an rts game of dow not moba other wise don't bother calling it dow, big amies base building we already have that in dow1 with sync kills but with better looking units yet old as fuck so instead of making a better game that went 5 steps backwoods but hey you see soon I cant wait for it to fail then maybe people well final see what relic should never make games again

Another of those positives I've had in DoWIII is the absence of any major bugs so far. This is a good thing! I'm personally glad that the issues I have with the game are mostly to do with balance and not actual core functions of the game. Balance is fixable, DoW2 cover system is not.

Really, the core question I have to ask is where exactly this game takes these "backwood" steps you speak of? So far, the only answers I've heard were "graphics" and "moba". If the first is the real dealbreaker for you then so be it. If it's the latter, then I need someone to explain to me how exactly DoW3 is a moba clone and DoW2 has nothing to do with mobas.

From the sounds of it towards the end, I don't even know why you even bothered with DoW3 because Relic is so bad.

To just further explain my whole point about army preservation earlier, all 3 armies have numerous and accessible tools to just decimate a blobbed enemy force. Arguably too many imo, but that's a different issue. Blobbing up is among the worst things you can do in this game, as your elites need your army unless they like getting ganked and you subsequently wrecked. The lack of an ez-mode "hit x to not die" retreat function combined with the ability to establish forward bases means that players who actually manage to keep their army alive is rewarded by a larger army for cheaper with much less downtime. This is a good change imo, and really cuts out the binary escape/didn't escape aspect that the retreat function has.

As a final note, I'm not even much of a DoW3 fanboy. I'm just so utterly shocked by the salt mines of nerdrage I am seeing from the detractors. Why is no one asking what should be the single most core question to a game: "Is it fun to play?"

Why is no one asking what should be the single most core question to a game: "Is it fun to play?"

Because they get off on hating. We see this with almost every major release now. These kids' egos stake out an overly critical position (product X is ALL negative and NO positive) because they are just overly thirsty to oppose something they don't like and stark, myopic points of view are necessary to sate this thirst. Then when more moderate appraisals challenge their positions by pointing out some positives about product X, they just dig in and cling to their pre-chosen stance even harder in defense. At that point it's not even really conversing with a reasoning intellect anymore. It's just talking to an ego that only wants to defend its pre-determined view no matter what. I've seen this again and again in comment threads of this game's youtube trailers. Saw it alot during the run up to Killer Instinct's release in 2013. I'm sure you guys have noticed this regarding more than one game release by now.

im not even going to bother no more with words this bores me I just wait and see to how relic mess up dow3 my point will get proven soon and I cant wait for it

Chronoslayer wrote:I'm sure you guys have noticed this regarding more than one game release by now.

...and one election.

I think Internet forum negativity needs to be taken with a pinch of salt (and not saltiness). People state a slightly negative comment about one aspect of something, may be they use some hyperbole or "persuasive language". Someone responds and next thing they are defending an extreme position they don't believe or intend.

After all, no one rational can really have a strong opinion until they play the game; but that doesn't mean they can't criticise aspects of what they have seen.

Tldr: criticism with a bit of exaggerated language ain't always hatin'

Let us just watch out for these fucked up habits of Relic from COH2. This game is a goner as soon as any of these comes to pass.
Let us be smart consumers and do not support pay to win.
No relic you are not going to earn our money for op elite unit spamming with DLC.
No relic there should be no intel report shenanigans. This is not league of legend. We do not need runes system.
No relic you better fix up that stupid UI design.
No relic you do not support APM war with tons of active skills.

1. Revealing commander DLC from day 1. Wow, are they insane? It is a DLC that can affect basic balance of the game and you dare release it on day one? Some units were even unusable if you didn't have certain DLC. It took 3 years for them to release the patch that allows ppl to use in game currency to buy everything.
2. Whats more? they even didn't allow ppl to watch replays if they do not have DLCs for factions that appear in the replay
3. Stupidly big and useless UI design
4. More than 30+ Commanders in total, why don't you just say fuk off yo plebian casual gamer? COH1 was quite complicate enough for new ppl but COH2 with those crazy number of commanders proved that it can be made even more difficult
5. Units firepower was increased while their defense was decreased. This caused game to be way too fast for many of ppl to play. In a blink of an eye, your units are gone. Again raising the skill bar for new players.
6. That intel report thingy. I mean why the hell is it possible for these things to affect actual units in game? This also took 3 years for them to fix it so that you cannot equip multiple of them and also their effects got nurfed

I have no idea why are these corporations so stupid. If they wanna play dirty, why not play real dirty? If I was the guy making decisions, I would have done it this way. Make a dead copy of DOW1 with better graphics. Add more units and maps. Make a new campaign. Recruit voice actors from DOW1 and 2. And release this as beta with only little changes like having to upgrade listening post for power gens and having no squad caps etc.

And then shut their ears to DOW2 players totally. Get support from DOW1 players and appease them with e sport. Maybe put it on sale on winter steam sale time for those who have either dow1 or 2.

Imo their decisions are neither efficient nor well thought out. If you want to make this DOW1 style, do it all the way through. Aren't they so good at shutting their ears to players? then why not be a real asshole and maximize profit by alienating DOW2 guys and focus soley on imporving on DOW1? This way they will get full support from resenting DOW1 players and they will somehow blindly support DLC spamming because they have a gaming style they like. I wonder what is this half ass attitude this relic guys have.

Did they have some weird lessons from CA on marketing or sth? CA did that stupid Chaos DLC thing and got their ass kicked. If they were gonna be real assholes, they could have included chaos in the game and then also add that chaos DLC cost to the base game prize. Never even mention chaos was intended as DLC and discount exactly the amount of chaos dlc for pre orders. This way ppl buy games and don't bitch about it but instead they blurt out Chaos DLC and then got riots everywhere. Why not earn the same money without angering ppl?