Dawn of War Codex

Posted: **Wed 12 Sep, 2018 12:59 am**

Thank you very much

Posted: **Sat 13 Oct, 2018 11:51 am**

Torpid wrote:
Xen0tech wrote:I'm keen to watch replays but my only source is indrid casts. Eldar always losing in his replays except once in a 3vs3 vs nids

If your only source of replays is Indrid Casts you shouldn't really be making comments.

Indrid's channel is not educational on how to play, it is for entertainment and the majority of his viewers never have and never will play this game.

https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/log

Try the above, and as I say make sure to note the actual elo of the players you are watching. Eldar perform disproportionately badly at low level.

Suggesting elite adopts retail rangers in terms of their damage is obscene, but I am not sure you fully meant that. Whilst retail rangers thesmelves weren't totally horredous in and of themselves that was only because every other race had a blatantly OP unit or 2, that the ranger had to compete with, and in addition the rest of the eldar roster was weaker. Whilst elite has nerfed the rangers and shuriken it has buffed the Dire Avengers (guardians in retail), banshees, warp spiders, wraithguard, wraithlord, falcon and added fire dragons and dark reapers. Not only that but the other races with their OP units had such units nerfed and unlike eldar those races didn't necessarily get anything in return for it.

Orks had sluggas, shootas, weirdboy, stikkbommas, wartrukk nerfed. Only lootas and stormboys were buffed. Painboy was added though.
Sents/cats got nerfed.
SM didn't get nerfed but they were by far the weakest race in retail.
Bloodletters/plague marines/noise marines/bloodcrushers got nerfed.
Raveners/zoanthropes got nerfed.

How can you possibly claim banshees were buffed in elite? They lost their pursuit ability from retail, and weren't even played in elite in favor of triple dire avengers for ages because they were so frail.
How can you claim wraithguard were buffed? They lost their damage output in favor of fire on the move, which was the last thing they needed. Wraithlord had a health nerf.... Fire dragons were good, but they got nerfed hard and also rarely see play because they're too easy to tie up in melee when their weapons are so short range.
Eldar are in bad way at the moment, and we need to start recording game result stats to bear out how under performing they are. Not sure why these forums are so blatantly anti-eldar in tone all the time. Indrid straight up said he chose casts with eldar specifically with high-skill players and they still lose. 1vs1 and 3vs3. Just watch the Elite League game show series to watch eldar consistently lose 1vs1. It almost always plays out the same. They struggle through tier one into tier two, gain a moment of ascendancy, before crashing and burning late t2/ early t3 when their fragility fucks their ability to properly defend static victory points, and undercuts their ability to push well-defended positions necessary to win i.e. victory points which are few in number. Especially in late game when resources become less important that VPs, the benefits from speed/ hit-and-run mechanics that are used to justify their high cost are negated as the utility from capturing less defended resource points with their speed no longer matters.If there were more Victory points on the map that needed to be defended by races with superior resilience, this would help make eldar speed relevant late-game and justify their frailty. But of course this is all lost on these forums because "FUCK ELDAR, NERF NOW" right? Go play eldar if you think they're so OP. Original poster is correct in that other races are more forgiving of mistakes than eldar, which is especially devastating in a game that rewards keeping squads alive and leveling them. The incentives inherent in DOW cut against the grain of eldar in almost every way. Defending/ pushing defended, static victory points, squad longevity, and unit flexibility to cheaply respond to new threats are not where eldar excel. And suggestions to the contrary are disingenuous.
Rant over. Bracing for hate.

Posted: **Sat 13 Oct, 2018 12:26 pm**

Laplace's Demon wrote:-

If you are interested in stats, here's the rankings for Eldar in ESL https://dawnofwar.info/esl/stats

According to ESL, they have the second highest win rate behind Tyranids, which are kind of a dark horse given that theya re mostly played by a very small pool of individuals and given the general lack of understanding most players have of them, allows their win rates to be inflated.

I think in general if Eldar were all about surivabiltiy and health, you'd not be wrong to be concenred about their changes in Elite. But they are an army that doesn't play like any other given their sheer volume of tools.

I don't think my explanation is going to be very good so given that you're citing Indrid, have a look at the first game in Indrid's Elite league episode 9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZVIXtxGJ1k

Hans shows off some interesting aspects of the faction and some clever ways to set up engagements.

Eldar require a decent amount of care and attention to make work, and in the hands of a good player they're impossibly fast and full of typical trickery.

Posted: **Sat 13 Oct, 2018 1:39 pm**

Swift wrote:
Laplace's Demon wrote:-

If you are interested in stats, here's the rankings for Eldar in ESL https://dawnofwar.info/esl/stats

According to ESL, they have the second highest win rate behind Tyranids, which are kind of a dark horse given that theya re mostly played by a very small pool of individuals and given the general lack of understanding most players have of them, allows their win rates to be inflated.

I'm aware of those but I'm not sure how these are calculated. If the data is only coming from esl games and players specifically, I'd suggest including all the games that are played in a separate chart to see the overall state-of-play across the community. Otherwise it's a non-representative sample. Even if the data is representative, what I say about the steep drop-off in faction performance mid-late/ late game still shows up in those charts. And we all know why that drop-off occurs.

Swift wrote:I think in general if Eldar were all about surivabiltiy and health, you'd not be wrong to be concenred about their changes in Elite. But they are an army that doesn't play like any other given their sheer volume of tools.

I don't think my explanation is going to be very good so given that you're citing Indrid, have a look at the first game in Indrid's Elite league episode 9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZVIXtxGJ1k

Hans shows off some interesting aspects of the faction and some clever ways to set up engagements.

Eldar require a decent amount of care and attention to make work, and in the hands of a good player they're impossibly fast and full of typical trickery.

I'd suggest the gap in skill level in episode 9 is pretty big. Forgetting to repair the dreadnought, overspending on the FC in t2 etc but just my opinion. When Hans goes against capable SM the results tend to be different.

Eldar have tools available - no one is saying they don't - but relative to their competitors the faction seems schizophrenic and gimmicky. For example, take melta storm troopers. They upgrade to have melta guns, snare grenades and can infiltrate. These are abilities that are deeply complementary and pay long term dividends. For a base price of 320 req no power, and upgrade for 75/15.
Compare that to the much maligned fire dragons, costing 360 req and 40 power base on a power heavy faction. For a melta unit that does not have infiltrate or melta bombs, Fire dragons cost 25 more power and 35 less req. Any eldar player would tell you storm troopers are one hell of a bargain, and are highly flexible.

This is one example of many where eldar units seem confused in their roles compared to their opponents, or are strictly less efficient at the same task. Another example is warp spiders. They're a great anti-infantry unit with teleport to help off-set their extreme fragility (even by eldar standards), but they are also the faction's only non-hero source of vehicle snare, which requires an expensive, fragile unit to get very close to an opponent's vehicle unit they are otherwise incapable of harming, and is micro intensive on a micro-intensive faction. Switching abilities, giving fire dragons the snare grenade and warp spiders the "dragons fury" ability would complement their functions in the faction, like their opponents have. Currently, to get the same functions of a single infil/ melta storm trooper squad, eldar must buy two entire units, and invest heavily in micro to approach the same capability. 3 units if you also want to infiltrate the fire dragons. This is the case across the faction, it seems to me, with a few notable exceptions and it forces eldar into overly elaborate, micro-intensive, high-risk initiatives to counter threats that other factions have single units for. And if they mess up, or their opponent is paying attention, eldar turn into confetti, and Dark Riku will tell you to git gud

Dark reapers are a great unit in this regard. Their upgrade grants an ability that complements their role, and they fill a critical gap in the eldar capability roster. D-cannons, even after the nerf, are another great example of well designed eldar units that know what they're there for. But generally speaking, playing eldar is playing dow on hard mode. If that is the intention, then keep them as they are. But if not, the faction needs a re-think imo. Its easy to say this since im not gonna have to do the work, but hey - freedom of speech

Posted: **Sat 13 Oct, 2018 3:08 pm**

eldar are underpowered

Posted: **Sun 14 Oct, 2018 5:12 am**

What is this bullshit that im looking at I swear eldar have are some of the most ungrateful players I ever seen lets start with where you are wrong :lol:

1.Banshees was buffed a lot in elite more heath out of the gate, cheaper aspect, less upkeep to help with bleed. Only nerfs were abit less change range and 5 more power for leader still one of the best retreat kills like in retail.

2.Wraithguard never lost damage, having fire on the move was a joke only bad thing about them is there worthless leader.

3.Wraithlord only lost 100 heath, has more heath regain now but as you know always has melee resistance and still has a self heal.

4. Fire dragons bullshit unit if I ever saw one still don't know why they were added I give you that they need a whole reworked atm they are just melta dps with 100% accuracy great.

Idk how you can say they are weak one of the races that got a lot of love in elite just play more and you see and this come form a player who uses farseer alot lately.

Posted: **Sun 14 Oct, 2018 8:54 am**

Fotm WG were such bs that they more or less broke the whole IG matchup.

Triple DA was favoured over shee openings when DA were overperforming. Shees were common before it and common after it.

Shees were changed in Elite. They lost the ability to infinitely chase after retreating units but got a cost reduction and more hp out of the gate to compensate. Not to say that they can't chase units anymore, they still can but are less obnoxious.

Dragons are a weird unit. Used to be broken af, now they are meh. Rarely a reason to get them imo.

Not sure if I'd use statistics from league and ladder. We lack an active high level player base so the stats probably don't represent the balance very well or reliably.

Posted: **Sun 14 Oct, 2018 9:26 pm**

boss wrote:What is this bullshit that im looking at I swear eldar have are some of the most ungrateful players I ever seen lets start with where you are wrong
1.Banshees was buffed a lot in elite more heath out of the gate, cheaper aspect, less upkeep to help with bleed. Only nerfs were abit less change range and 5 more power for leader still one of the best retreat kills like in retail.

Would suggest that maybe the banshee "buffs" came because they were nerfed too hard the first time. As I said, they're now playable again.

boss wrote:2.Wraithguard never lost damage, having fire on the move was a joke only bad thing about them is there worthless leader.

They've had a number of nerfs over time. The change-log is not up to date but you can clearly see they had their reload duration increased,
effectively reducing their dps.

boss wrote:3.Wraithlord only lost 100 heath, has more heath regain now but as you know always has melee resistance and still has a self heal.

While also becoming more expensive. Now go look at all the dreadnought buffs in the changelog before you accuse Eldar players of being ungrateful.
Dreadnought
Build time decreased from 50 to 42 seconds
Rotation rate increased from 200 to 275
Special attacks no longer knock back retreating units (but still knock back heavy non-retreating units)
Upgrading with a ranged weapon no longer removes inspiration on melee kill
Assault Cannon damage increased from 90 to 100
Assault Cannon Barrage range increased from 33 to 35
Assault Cannon cost decreased from 100/40 to 100/30
Multi-melta cooldown decreased from 5 to 3.5
Multi-melta cost increased from 80/20 to 100/30
https://dawnofwar.info/codex.php?page=e ... gelog_full

boss wrote:4. Fire dragons bullshit unit if I ever saw one still don't know why they were added I give you that they need a whole reworked atm they are just melta dps with 100% accuracy great.

Idk how you can say they are weak one of the races that got a lot of love in elite just play more and you see and this come form a player who uses farseer alot lately.

Not sure I ever used the word "weak" in anything I've said. The point I'm making is that the way DOW win-conditions are structured cuts against the faction's strengths in the long-term. It's systemic imo, and I have no idea what would be needed to make them less schizophrenic. When the faction's strengths are used to justify nerfs and cost increases it should not be a surprise to anyone when Eldar players bitch. Swapping the FD "dragons fury" ability with warp spiders haywire grenade and vice-versa might be a start, but that's up to Crysis.

Posted: **Sun 14 Oct, 2018 9:34 pm**

Laplace's Demon wrote:... Rant over. ....

Dude, in what universe do you live? A universe where Eldar actually sucks?
Dude, give me a portal or something. You live in my dreamworld! <3

Have you actually looked at any stats or the league...? You know, where Eldar DOMINATE.

Posted: **Sun 14 Oct, 2018 9:39 pm**

Laplace's Demon wrote:
boss wrote:What is this bullshit that im looking at I swear eldar have are some of the most ungrateful players I ever seen lets start with where you are wrong
1.Banshees was buffed a lot in elite more heath out of the gate, cheaper aspect, less upkeep to help with bleed. Only nerfs were abit less change range and 5 more power for leader still one of the best retreat kills like in retail.

Would suggest that maybe the banshee "buffs" came because they were nerfed too hard the first time. As I said, they're now playable again.

boss wrote:2.Wraithguard never lost damage, having fire on the move was a joke only bad thing about them is there worthless leader.

They've had a number of nerfs over time. The change-log is not up to date but you can clearly see they had their reload duration increased,
effectively reducing their dps.

boss wrote:3.Wraithlord only lost 100 heath, has more heath regain now but as you know always has melee resistance and still has a self heal.

While also becoming more expensive. Now go look at all the dreadnought buffs in the changelog before you accuse Eldar players of being ungrateful.
Dreadnought
Build time decreased from 50 to 42 seconds
Rotation rate increased from 200 to 275
Special attacks no longer knock back retreating units (but still knock back heavy non-retreating units)
Upgrading with a ranged weapon no longer removes inspiration on melee kill
Assault Cannon damage increased from 90 to 100
Assault Cannon Barrage range increased from 33 to 35
Assault Cannon cost decreased from 100/40 to 100/30
Multi-melta cooldown decreased from 5 to 3.5
Multi-melta cost increased from 80/20 to 100/30
https://dawnofwar.info/codex.php?page=e ... gelog_full

boss wrote:4. Fire dragons bullshit unit if I ever saw one still don't know why they were added I give you that they need a whole reworked atm they are just melta dps with 100% accuracy great.

Idk how you can say they are weak one of the races that got a lot of love in elite just play more and you see and this come form a player who uses farseer alot lately.

Not sure I ever used the word "weak" in anything I've said. The point I'm making is that the way DOW win-conditions are structured cuts against the faction's strengths in the long-term. It's systemic imo, and I have no idea what would be needed to make them less schizophrenic. When the faction's strengths which diminish in utility long-term are used to justify nerfs and cost increases it should not be a surprise to anyone when Eldar players bitch. Swapping the FD "dragons fury" ability with warp spiders haywire grenade and vice-versa might be a start, but that's up to Crysis.
Proposals:
1. Trade the FD "dragons fury" ability for warp spiders haywire grenade and vice-versa.
2. Create a T3 upgrade for Dire Avengers to help survivability/ relevance late-game. Maybe unlocks an Aspect of Avenger ability for T3 or something. "Wrath of Asuryan" (or something) for 100/25 that grants additional unit health buff and passive health regen buff to nearby Eldar infantry or something. Non-stacking. Open to suggestions.
3. Lower Autarchy skyleap re-entry red cost to 75 after the initial 150 red purchase cost.
4. Give the Avatar more health or vehicle snare resistance. He's not even a vehicle, and snares are death for him. Also give some snare resistance for GUO and HT. Not immunity. Resistance, or reduced effect.

For your consideration.

Posted: **Sun 14 Oct, 2018 10:22 pm**

Laplace's Demon wrote:-

https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/log/10187791

Posted: **Sun 14 Oct, 2018 10:43 pm**

Torpid wrote:
Laplace's Demon wrote:-

https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/log/10187791

Look like you kicked some ass. What's your point?

Posted: **Sun 14 Oct, 2018 10:46 pm**

Laplace's Demon wrote:
Torpid wrote:
Laplace's Demon wrote:-

https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/log/10187791

Look like Torpid kicked some ass. What's your point?

I just beat the 2nd best player and the best IG pretty easily with my eldar even though in all honesty I played pretty mediocre.

IG and eldar have aways been my main two races. They're my mains I'd say, then SM. I'd say that both IG and eldar have never been so strong as right now in elite and that both are OP.

Bar the 9pop shurikens and blatantly broken rangers I liked eldar in retail. If the eldar stayed like that and all the other races got the appropriate nerfs they needed from retail (except SM) then they'd be in a good spot. Unfoirtuantely eldar and IG have just had too many cumulative buffs whilst other races got nerfs. Only SM can compete with them and that's because they too have just got buff after buff and very few nerfs.

Eldar is absolutely top tier in 1v1 now. Eldar and IG. I'd say eldar beat IG, but IG are better vs the marine races. So overall they're about on par for the top races.

Posted: **Mon 15 Oct, 2018 7:58 am**

Should never compare walkers from 2 diffent races cos each has is own role laplace

Sm dreads are often a high investment for sm cos 450 rec and 120 power on top of the rest of your units are dear to get, then there the choice of do you want to keep it melee or upgrade it a huge choice cos you lose melee resistance aura unlike the wraithlord its just an upgrade ontop of the fact you have cheaper units and cheaper walker. Wraithlord is overall the best walker cos it don't lose anything but gains unlike the rest which you have to choice what you want it to do but.

Other than sm which got the most buffs cos they needed them to be viable, eldar where the 2nd best race to come out of elite but of course cos of how ungrateful eldar players are they don't see this, its that or you guys are retarded.

Avatar buffs wtf
Dire avengers or guardians they are fine. Have to wonder why they got change to dire avengers.

Also cyrsis is gone so he won't be doing changes still god knows how this guy got fucking lead how fucking funny should just be removed ages ago and put someone who understands the game in lead.

Posted: **Wed 17 Oct, 2018 1:20 pm**

Okay, I'm probably the worst player in elite mod, but here's my view on eldar:

The reason they feel like they don't have what it takes to win the late game to lower skilled players is that you really do need exactly the right combination of units in exactly the right place and pointing exactly the right way to even win an engagement. The absolutely absurd level of micro involved in doing this basically prices lower skilled players out of playing eldar entirely.

The thing about balancing for that is when you start with the assumption that only the highest skill level players are going to be able to play eldar, any buff you make is going to be disproportionately powerful and many debuffs that don't just cause a unit to be unable to fill its role are just going to be compensated for anyways with skill.

I think that when we ask ourselves why we want to make a balance change, one of the things we need to figure out is who we are making this change for. If we are making a change so that eldar players benefit, we need to understand that we are really saying that we want to give the best players in the game a leg up. Conversely, if we nerf eldar, we are really saying we want the best players to have to work harder for wins.

Because of the way that more hours played = more skill ( though not evenly or linearly!) It kinda just makes sense that as time goes on, you have to do some sort of weird progressive debuff tax thing on enfranchised eldar players just to keep them on the same playing field as everyone else, as a function of how eldar work in combination with the skill level of the typical player who can even use them without getting murdered.

Posted: **Wed 17 Oct, 2018 4:33 pm**

realmslayer wrote:Okay, I'm probably the worst player in elite mod, but here's my view on eldar:

Well, everyone starts somewhere, and I'm sure worst is hyperbolic. I've seen many people with many hours who are probably not as good as yourself.

realmslayer wrote:The reason they feel like they don't have what it takes to win the late game to lower skilled players is that you really do need exactly the right combination of units in exactly the right place and pointing exactly the right way to even win an engagement. The absolutely absurd level of micro involved in doing this basically prices lower skilled players out of playing eldar entirely.

That's kind of the point. With Eldar you are not getting a straightforward faction. They aren't something you can just pick up and run with and expect to work. You'll probably find anyone taking that approach is going to suffer significantly. I'm fairly sure most people who are good with Eldar now started out messing with all sorts of factions because they are naturally difficult. Not every faction should have an ease of learning curve that is the same as one another, because the game is balanced asymmetrically. Its not expected by anyone that if you aren't as skilled in the game you'll have a good time with Eldar, that's just the way Relic made them.

realmslayer wrote:The thing about balancing for that is when you start with the assumption that only the highest skill level players are going to be able to play eldar, any buff you make is going to be disproportionately powerful and many debuffs that don't just cause a unit to be unable to fill its role are just going to be compensated for anyways with skill.

I can see why this looks this way, but its not so simple. Just because X Eldar unit receives a buff doesn't mean its any different to another faction's unit getting a buff somewhere. You could argue that a Chaos unit getting buffed for Y reason is bad for the game because it means low skilled players can now abuse it more easily without needing to get better at the game and properly learn how to overcome what was holding them back. It's the same logic.

Skill is something relative, so if you are skilled enough you could technically win a game with whatever you like, no matter how the matchup might favour something else. That's just the nature of disparities in skill, not a balance issue. If you're losing to something that isn't supposed to be beating your units, then it indicates there's a learning curve to be respected here.

realmslayer wrote:I think that when we ask ourselves why we want to make a balance change, one of the things we need to figure out is who we are making this change for. If we are making a change so that eldar players benefit, we need to understand that we are really saying that we want to give the best players in the game a leg up. Conversely, if we nerf eldar, we are really saying we want the best players to have to work harder for wins.

Again, its not so simple and something as nebulous as a balance change is kind of hard to pin down as an example. A balance change could be anything from a straight stat boost, a cost change, a timing change, an alteration to the game's base mechanics like suppression values etc or even a new map rebalance. If a change of any kind is being made, its not just being thrown out there just cos, it is (in theory) considered first and should only be approached where there is something that needs addressing. Things shouldn't be changed if they don't need it, sometimes it happens but most of the time no one will turn around and just decide a very comfortable unit needs something.

It is also not just the best players who play Eldar, there are some people who have chosen to sit through it and learn how Eldar work, and maybe they aren't top tier, but they are making the faction work for themselves. Its just how we decide to play in the end. If a change is made to anything, everyone is affected, not just some little group that might or might not benefit.

realmslayer wrote:Because of the way that more hours played = more skill ( though not evenly or linearly!) It kinda just makes sense that as time goes on, you have to do some sort of weird progressive debuff tax thing on enfranchised eldar players just to keep them on the same playing field as everyone else, as a function of how eldar work in combination with the skill level of the typical player who can even use them without getting murdered.

Talk to aminion r.e. that first bit :]

About the progressive debuff tax, firstly I don't know how you'd do anything like that, where would you start, how would you do it, why, what planet are you living on etc. To be blunt, that sounds like a terrible idea because it makes some very basic assumptions. You've been talking about skill this whole time as if its something that only applies to Eldar players and they are the only ones who every get benefits from playing over a long time. If that were the case, we'd only every see Eldar win. You can outplay your opponent with any faction, if you start going after Eldar particularly because they're harder than your power armoured counterparts, its going to be pointless because then a Space Marine, or Ork or whatever player is just going to roll over you at some point and then what do we do, nerf Orks because you can't grasp them the same way as someone else? We can't just decide we don't like one faction and punish everyone who plays it because lower level players are suffering a tiny bit more than they'd like.

I'm not trying to come off condescending, this is just how I see it.

Posted: **Wed 17 Oct, 2018 9:02 pm**

Swift, I wasn't making a suggestion or a criticism here, just stating how things already work. We already have a situation where buffs to eldar give high level players more of an advantage then low level players get from that same buff, because that's just how that works.

Nerfs will disproportionately affect players at lower skill levels too, because again that's just how that works. Different players of different levels get different amounts of value from their units.

The thing is, because eldar are "the high skill faction" Idk how or why you'd take into account low- mid skill eldar players input or data or anything when balancing that faction, and this seems to already be the case. lowish skill playyers who complain about eldar balance are told to " L2P" or "get gud", and implicit in the statement " eldar are the hardest race to play" is the understanding that in order to play them to competency, you have to be better than you would have to be with other factions.

Its pretty clear to me that with eldar , you have a faction where a unit can nerfed heavily yet unless the unit no longer fulfills its role, it doesn't matter nearly as much except to the low- mid skill players who clearly aren't the "target audience" for eldar anyways. In addition, you will just naturally need to nerf eldar more every patch just because the eldar players get better over time and you can't have the wins skew too far in that direction. ( which is what I was talking about with the "progressive debuff" comment, if eldar didn't get more heavily nerfed over time than we be in a situation where high level eldar players were winning more games than those of other factions.)

Its just unfourtunate that low-mid level players are left with units that aren't balanced so they can play them, but that's the nature of balancing that faction, I guess.

Posted: **Wed 17 Oct, 2018 9:23 pm**

can't tell if troll or not

Posted: **Wed 17 Oct, 2018 11:25 pm**

realmslayer wrote:...

I feel like you're putting eldar on too high of a pedestal here...

Posted: **Thu 18 Oct, 2018 12:49 am**

I really don't believe this myth that eldar are a "high level faction", a high "micro" faction, a "high apm" faction or a particuarly difficult to play in any way.

It requires a different mindset. I think if you play eldar as the first race ever in the game you'll find them perfectly fine. People just play them after playing SM/CSM and find they suck.

They say the same thing with nids and orks. Nids and orks have less hp and less get-out-of-jail for free cards in fleet of foot/webways. I also find them more micro intensive to use optimally.

Posted: **Fri 19 Oct, 2018 10:25 pm**

I agree. The notion that Eldar is a "high skill" race is a myth! They have amove units too, in some cases even more than others.

Dawn of War Codex

Same thing happened to eldar in dowpro

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