Dawn of War Codex

2 Questions:

1) When is a good time to get Mark of Khorne CSM? I tend to prefer bloodletters if I want melee infantry in tier 2 for what Sub_Zero mentioned. As it is, I kinda just run my kcsm in and they get slowed/shot to death, so I wonder how to use them better.

2) I haven't had a lot of late-game experience, but Chaos seems to have trouble with IG heavy tanks. Would melta raptors be a good choice in that case, even when they're not already out? I wonder what unit combos would be good for that, especially if they have a bunker.

1) When is a good time to get Mark of Khorne CSM? I tend to prefer bloodletters if I want melee infantry in tier 2 for what Sub_Zero mentioned. As it is, I kinda just run my kcsm in and they get slowed/shot to death, so I wonder how to use them better.

It's very situational, I usualyl get KCSM when I really want a vehicle, like a bc or even a dred, but at the same time I need a quick melee squad to cover it from av may it be something like a purgation squad/tank bustas or setup teams with AV, otherwise when you want to overwhelm your opponent with melee so you go letters/kcsm/melee tics or yet again when you want to make your opponent to force micro is units, aswell as to put alot of pressure on his ranged units in a case where they have like warp spiders/dark reapers but no shees to save them from your Kmarines, and also all In all they are very good cappers, fast, provide some pretty decent AV especially vs transports and there aren't really many units that can beat them in 1v1.

2) I haven't had a lot of late-game experience, but Chaos seems to have trouble with IG heavy tanks. Would melta raptors be a good choice in that case, even when they're not already out? I wonder what unit combos would be good for that, especially if they have a bunker.

Raptors may be a good idea, especially if the IG goes full ranged blob at the end of the game, but ideally you just want to counter-spam tzeentch predators (very cost efficient but you need to micro them well) and hopefully you also have a left over of AV from the previous tiers mostly lascannons/Tzeentch dred.

I find Raptors have excellent versatility now that the AC has a tracking ability. It really makes them a tempting unit to take alongside havocs in case you need transitional AV.

For example, Raptors with AC will beat Sluggas in melee comfortably if champion gets ability off on the slugga nob - there's a good few seconds where its the 4 raptors against the 6 standing sluggas and without the nob's dps/specials they lose.

Daemonic Fury is also a cheeky way of assassinating squad leaders if you see they've taken damage. I've found it really rounds-out the Raptors. They're in a great spot. The only real things I think are imperfect for Chaos currently are:

1. Nurgle Worship - scale with tiers plz :p
2. Plague of Undeath - give it a purpose in life.
3. - most important - Mark of Khorne CSM - let's be honest, for all the "situational" and theorycrafted fights where they are good, KCSM are lackluster compared to TCSM. Believe me, I have tried and tried and tried but they are consistently outperformed by TCSM, who guarantee an 8/10 performance at least and level like lightning. A further upgrade in T3 (possessed?) would be my call.
4. Malignant Blindness - dunno if this can be made to actually allow escapes and sneak attacks. Unfixable I guess?

Apart from that I think it's just minor fine-tuning for Chaos.

Raffa wrote: The only real things I think are imperfect for Chaos currently are:

Nobody is asking for a Chaos balance discussion here :p
Make that remark in the balance discussions please so people can reply.
Now continue about raptors ^^

I build KCSM as a zone control unit mostly. Bloodletters are way better combat unit and bodyguard simply because they are low risk due to their abilities in tandem with worship regen making them very tanky.

As ace said, there aren't a lot of units that can take on KCSM by themselves in a pure 1v1, and KCSM are fast which means they wont get kited and annoyed for a lengthy period of time by a lone ranged squad.

Thus, (to be very specific) I use KCSM against lone capper heroes and the autarch. I use KCSM as a transport counter because the AC has the melta pistol, and KCSM should be able to threaten whatever comes out of the transport. I will use KCSM if I have lots of red saved up for several uses of malignant blindness. And, I will use KCSM if the opportunity to overwhelm with melee units presents itself.
These are basically the only criteria in which I will use them.
(And yes, just in case you were wondering, I do think KCSM are internally and externally underpowered a little bit)

The original question you have can be answered quite simply I think. Raptors are a unit much better suited for tier 1 synergy (stuff like coruscating flame + jump into crowd) that transitions into tier 2 zone control (upgrading with AC and locking down a third of a map with 1 unit). If you don't like using lots of heretics because they bleed a lot, then I would suggest you add raptors to your roster frequently. If you can handle 2-3 squads of heretics in tier 1, then the potential carry over of available worship zones for demons is immense and makes them infinitely better than raptors.

That Torpid Gamer wrote:Nope, CA isn't too good, I get the first armour in 75% of the games I play with the bro-captain and nemesis vortex is still really strong since that nemmy+hellfury combo can wipe squads in an instant.

the first armour, plus unending purge, + any of the brocap's t2 weapon turns him into a nigh unstoppable rape train