Dawn of War Codex

Indrid wrote:I think the animation time is hard coded or something and the call-in time can't be reduced.

It is. If you lower the delay of when the drop pod arrives units will reinforce before the drop pod hits the ground which looks silly.

Source: Experience since i tried this in me MOD.

I'm also in support if changing to Drop Pod to having a tac squad of some variety be in it. I would expect a req increase as been mentioned.

The point of contention I'm seeing is the free reinforcment and if it reinforces afterwards. Just speaking from common sense, I think any reinforcing the Drop Pod should do is upon landing..... because I have no idea where the units are coming from otherwise lol.

In that sense, I think a discout tac squad + sarge and free reinforcement on drop would be the way to go. You can go sterns from there if you want, get a tac weapon and still keep the free reinforce in exchange for losing it as a general reinforcement point. Idk about any sorts of buffs coming out of the global either.

Atlas wrote:The point of contention I'm seeing is the free reinforcment and if it reinforces afterwards. Just speaking from common sense, I think any reinforcing the Drop Pod should do is upon landing..... because I have no idea where the units are coming from otherwise lol.

And transports reinforcing makes sense? They just all sit there waiting for a model to die? Not to mention, the transports would never even have enough room to fit 1 squad

Dark Riku wrote:And transports reinforcing makes sense? They just all sit there waiting for a model to die? Not to mention, the transports would never even have enough room to fit 1 squad

I know I know! I didn't want to bring in up but that doesn't make much sense either! At least with transports you might get away with saying they have reserves or something. Transports are a way bigger part of the game then the drop pods are though so I'm not about to say all transports shouldn't reinforce because you can only fit so many clowns in the car.

Well don't forget that not only do wartrukks hold an infinite reserve of ork boyz, they also have a complete inventory of each space marine chapter, IG regiment, eldar warhost, chaos warband, and tyranid hive fleet

I always wondered why you would send your mahreens in just to call em out shortly after, because their older sternguard brothers are there. Would be hilarious to see a squad of tacs landing fancily with a drop pod just to catch a glimpse at the landscape before they are teleported back to whereever.

On the other hand a dedicated sternguard drop in would also mean that you can only have one drop pod around on the field as long as you don't lose the squad.

I guess the dynamic approach (or something similar) is needed.

Another thing to note is that FC and TM already have two req heavy callins as globals. Reworking the DP would add a third, making their globals even less distinct - nuke, 3 callins and one "normal" buff global.

Current DP is cheap and versatile, but unrealiable. New DP would be more reliable, but rather expensive and very niche - only usable if you really need the tact squad, otherwise not worth it.

I would much rather see making DP more reliable while keeping it versatile for broader spectrum of builds.

L0thar wrote:Another thing to note is that FC and TM already have two req heavy callins as globals. Reworking the DP would add a third, making their globals even less distinct - nuke, 3 callins and one "normal" buff global.

Current DP is cheap and versatile, but unrealiable. New DP would be more reliable, but rather expensive and very niche - only usable if you really need the tact squad, otherwise not worth it.

I would much rather see making DP more reliable while keeping it versatile for broader spectrum of builds.

rather expensive? do you know how much tacs with all the upgrades cost?

this is way cheaper and INSTANT. I would say almost every build has at least 1 tac squad.

Gorilla wrote:

L0thar wrote:Another thing to note is that FC and TM already have two req heavy callins as globals. Reworking the DP would add a third, making their globals even less distinct - nuke, 3 callins and one "normal" buff global.

Current DP is cheap and versatile, but unrealiable. New DP would be more reliable, but rather expensive and very niche - only usable if you really need the tact squad, otherwise not worth it.

I would much rather see making DP more reliable while keeping it versatile for broader spectrum of builds.

rather expensive? do you know how much tacs with all the upgrades cost?

this is way cheaper and INSTANT. I would say almost every build has at least 1 tac squad.

Yes, I know. It's expensive if you don't want the tact squad. Making it very one dimensional: no need for additional tact = DP global useless, unlike current DP, which could be useful with any infrantry composition. Also what if I already have two tacts and want mainly the reinforcement point? Now I can call in the DP for fairly cheap price. The new DP would be unusable in this situation, I would be forced to pay for something I really don't want.

And yes, almost any build needs tact...so you usually build them, already in T1, before you collect 200 red. Making additional tact rather questionable pursache.

It can work nicely with builds, which could make use of delayed second tact, but the current DP is usefull with such builds as well AND is usefull for builds that go tact heavy in early game.

Black Relic wrote:It is. If you lower the delay of when the drop pod arrives units will reinforce before the drop pod hits the ground which looks silly.

Source: Experience since i tried this in me MOD.

Probably, but since first wave of reinforcements doesn't come out of pod anymore but are teleported in instead, we can live with it I think.

Atlas wrote:The point of contention I'm seeing is the free reinforcment and if it reinforces afterwards. Just speaking from common sense, I think any reinforcing the Drop Pod should do is upon landing..... because I have no idea where the units are coming from otherwise lol.

Well, drop pods have locator beacons IIRC, and we can leave it at that.
Other transports normally don't, but nobody cares apparently


I like the idea of continuous auto-reinforcement similarly to how CDB worked at some point. About 5 ticks with interval of 1 sec or a bit less should be ok. That's the option I'm personally suporting.

If you absolutely have to have your STEEEEL REHN of tacs, we could make it an option. Basically, the way I've suggested in the context of vets before:

1) You call da pod for some initial (red, possibly also req/pwr) price;
2) Initially pod does nothing, but has 2 abilities: "reinforce all" and "call in tacs", each has additional req/pwr/popcap price;
2a) "Reinforce all" works like old (has it changed btw?) CDB for a short duration, like 5 seconds. Bonus points for incorporating "defensive deep strikes" joke into ability's name;
2b) "Call in tacs (also could use a better name)" releases tactical marines with sarge. Suggestion for that "special buff" idea: just make it so that they enter the field with charged and ready to use ATSKNF, that should go nicely with general "staying in the field" idea behind drop pod ability if that's what you wish to keep;
3) If player doesn't use one of those abilities within 7-10 seconds, they are lost. This is to prevent having reinforcements (or tacs, obviously) on demand "just in case" while camping the field. On the bright side, this is the cheapest option (only initial price is paid) and you geat nice locator beacon aka reinforcement point.

This way you will have more flexible and reliable global, only question being if it's too good.

EDIT: Oh, and don't mismanage your resource pool so you don't lose secondary ability after calling in that pod. Disabling automatic reinforce for your squads if you already have some transport/beacon there before dropping the pod is advisable. If you think you wouldn't want that (understandable in the middle of engagement), we can always make it so that initial price of drop pod global is equal to what we want "pod + reinforce" option to cost in total and then make "reinforce" ability free of additional resource cost. It may be activated by default upon post-landing timer expiration unless owner uses "drop tacs" option (or clicks "reinforce" earlier).

I'd actually advocate this exact option.

/SM fanboy out

The drop pod landing is actually animated from a massive altitude so someone would need to cut the animation shorter. It's probably the easiest animation job there is, though.

Lulgrim wrote:Some random thoughts;

If you want options, I could make SG and VG so that you buy the unit from HQ then it goes to the global bar and you can Drop Pod it to the field.

If you want to see DP (lol) during battles it could also land with an AoE inspiration buff instead of the free reinforce action.

What if it landed by doing damage? Basically something that you can call in to actually damage a position, if possible, as it was discussed before it should come down faster, if that wasn't possible, maybe a large explosive radius so that it's not too easy to avoid.

More or less the damage it should do would be around the hit of a Pcannon, aside from that I think it's overall a good idea to have it drop a tact squad with the sarge, sometimes you want 2 tacts for plasma/ML, sometimes you just want to replace tacts you lost and sometimes you want the SG, so it would be overall fine.

I like your idea Ace, though it would be awesome if you could "one drop pod" a walker/carnifex like you could do back in DoW 2 vanilla. But yeah that would prolly be too good, but hey one can dream.

Lulgrim wrote:The drop pod landing is actually animated from a massive altitude so someone would need to cut the animation shorter. It's probably the easiest animation job there is, though.

I'll take a look later tonight if no one else jumps on this

So, apparently the ability providing some dramatic help (terms and conditions apply) is going away, replaced by call-in of master-of-none-s, just exactly the thing you'd want to call in... Yeah.

That's dissapointing. Let's see what can we do with that though...

Agree, if it is gonna be reworked like that then the red cost should be toned down.

i really like that.

i alllways was sad about the cange made by relic that drop pods didnt bing a unit anymore.

the drop pod doing damage would also be nice and kind of a damage spell for SM which they are algging anyway.

How about we make this a apo only call in but instead of tac with sarge its an outright sternguard call in. would give something nice that only apo will have. and leave it like it is now for others. if not make if reinforce a bit faster

[TLV]Soul_Drinkers wrote:How about we make this a apo only call in but instead of tac with sarge its an outright sternguard call in. would give something nice that only apo will have. and leave it like it is now for others. if not make if reinforce a bit faster

What would be the reasoning for delivering it only to Apo's arsenal? What's wrong with Apo, something that can be remedied with it?

And Carthage must be destroyed Ahem, +1 for faster reinforcing current drop pod.

yeah i also dont get why only apo should have this.

the drop pod doing damage would also be nice and kind of a damage spell for SM which they are algging anyway

Im pretty sure it does damage. Ive seen it squish plenty of units, and even vehicles.

I call it the "Toil-let special" when somebody drops a pod and crushes a bunch of orks or w/e.

Tex wrote:I call it the "Toil-let special" when somebody drops a pod and crushes a bunch of orks or w/e.

lul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... dMY#t=1010

Barrogh wrote:And Carthage must be destroyed Ahem, +1 for faster reinforcing current drop pod.

Carthago delenda est? Solid Cato reference. I have to say, really solid.

I have this rather silly idea, which is probably not worth creating it's own thread, but could fit nicely into this one and I'd like to see same feedback.

What if the drop pod came with marines equivalent to vanguards...but without the jumpack? Purely melee unit, not dissimilar to KCSM. And then, in T3, you could upgrade them to actual vanguards, essentially just giving them jump pack. The limit of 1 VG would still apply.

For some reason, I really like the idea of having two units (one dedicated melee and one jump infantry), both able to upgrade to the same unit (jump infantry with dedicated melee level damage).

Honestly Lothar, SM units are all pretty slow. Better not to implant this idea

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Well I don't expect it to be implemented, but the concept seemed interesting enough for some discussion.

But I don't think slow would be a problem. The unit could act as a counterinitiation or could be buffed by VoT, becoming pretty fast.

True. But I just feel that VG without jump pack is simply too derp since I think most melee SM in TT have a jump pack unless they are leaders,sergeants or librarians etc.

Furthermore, to get a VG without Jump Packs which requires a purchase is simply a hassle.

Without jump packs,
They are prone to crippling volley without having contributed much via disruption
They are prone to crippling poison
They are prone to Bile Spewer
They are prone to Kinetic Strike
You get the picture.

And why bother using them for counter initiation? Enemies get the disrupt and immediately sends their army to debuff and focus fire the Jump Pack-less VG while Dev is in a tight situation stuck between a melee fight etc.


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True. But I just feel that VG without jump pack is simply too derp since I think most melee SM in TT have a jump pack unless they are leaders,sergeants or librarians etc.

Actually, unless they changed it with the latest codex, VG could be deployed I think either with JPs or with a transport/droppod.
In theory you could even deploy ASM without packs, but I really dont know why you would want to do that.

Orkfaeller wrote:but I really dont know why you would want to do that.

Because in the grim darkness of the future, there is only lulz

P.S. Really? The new codex says that? Damn I'm slow :S

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