Grey Knight Dreadnought ranged weapons

[Torpid]

Babysteps, babysteps!

Just like the VC carni buff.

[lolzarz]

I guess that the range should be tweaked slowly, but losing 1/7 of the damage isn't exactly baby steps, in my opinion. I mean, sure, I don't mind losing some damage to get decent artillery, but +3 range is a terrible trade-off for 1/7 damage unless it allows me to outrange enemy units in, say, artillery duels.

[Tex]

I'm with you on this one lolzarz. I was quite disappointed to see such a large decrease in damage for a gain of +3 range. However, this dread needs the range badly, so let's see how it plays out.

[Forestradio]

With the addition of the hurricane bolter and strike squad pysbolts, I see no MU I would ever buy this in. It's windup is simply too long to ever hit anything, and although a range increase might help with that, it is still going to be waaaaaaay down on the list of things I want to purchase in t2.

[Tex]

Attack ground tho...

[Aertes]

I still have the same doubts: what anti-vehicle weapon will the GK Dreadnought have once the Multimelta is gone?. And, between the plasma cannon and the new hurricane bolter, what will the inferno cannon be useful for?

[Indrid]

It's not actually a Hurricane Bolter that it gets from the looks of it, just a twin-linked heavy bolter.

It won't have any AV options. I think the generally more viable rhino, addition of the VA, sticky krak grenades and rebalanced shooty strike squad mean that GK don't hurt for AV options much anymore.

My concern is that the default GK dread is gonna be a bit lacklustre. The twin-linked bolter does suppress by itself which is not bad, but dreadnoughts are usually big impact purchases. The SM Dread gives you that scary melee (soon to be scarier) out the gate, the Chaos Dread gives you that anti-everything fire support from range, and the Deff Dread rewards quick techs by burning down gens and terrorising unprepared infantry. The twin-linked heavy bolter is decent fire support sure, but I'm not sure if it's gonna have that impact like the multi-melta did. We shall see how scary the damage is and if it will actually deter people from engaging at medium range (like the SM AC Dread does thanks to barrage).

The inferno cannon should be good with the courage damage change. Big AoE damage and an almost instant suppression. A niche purchase sure, but could be nuts against the right army.

[Orkfaeller]

It's not actually a Hurricane Bolter that it gets from the looks of it, just a twin-linked heavy bolter.
.

Sure? Thought it was going to be that thing

[Indrid]

It's not what is in the current dev build.

[Aertes]

So the GK Dreadnought, with supression heavy bolters and courage damaging flamer will be nothing else but a supression walker. It doesn't sound very impressive for T2, when all armies start getting vehicles and units that can't be supressed.

[Indrid]

Well it can also become arguably the best melee walker and they currently have the top-mounted independant grenade launcher working and available for purchase. Not sure if that is set to make it into the build or not.

[Forestradio]

Multi melta dread was bread and butter of t2.

I really hope it stays as an upgrade...........

[Cheah18]

Multi melta dread was bread and butter of t2.

I really hope it stays as an upgrade...........

I COMPLETELY AGREE! I am actually so concerned about the hurricane bolter leaving the GK dread with no ranged AV. I mean, hard av is hard enough to come by as gk already

[lolzarz]

Well it can also become arguably the best melee walker and they currently have the top-mounted independant grenade launcher working and available for purchase. Not sure if that is set to make it into the build or not.

Did you just say... grenade launcher?

WHERE? HOW MUCH DAMAGE?

But in all seriousness, will it (sort of) overlap with the plasma cannon?

[Caeltos]

The Grenade Launcher deals roughly 50 damage and has a 3 second interval between shots. I believe it's ~11 dps or so, and it's compatible with other upgrades.

For ex.

Inferno Cannon + Grenade Launcher
Plasma Cannon + Grenade Launcher
Hurricane Bolter + Grenade Launcher
Fist + Grenade Launcher

And it fires on the move as well.

[Orkfaeller]

Are we talking about this kind of Grenade Launcher?

[Indrid]

Yeah, ripped off the LRR model I guess.

[Cheekie Monkie]

I really want to see how the new hurricane bolter stacks with other sources of suppression e.g. the ST overcharge and teammates shotguns.

[Orkfaeller]

Yeah, ripped off the LRR model I guess.

Not the fan then :l

Dont think these are used for anything else than laying smoke screens.

[Swift]

That is exactly what they are for. But when I was new to the tabletop I thought it was a triple barreled las pistol mounted on vehicles.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

yup. the fan shape is to cover a wider area.

[Forestradio]

I COMPLETELY AGREE! I am actually so concerned about the hurricane bolter leaving the GK dread with no ranged AV. I mean, hard av is hard enough to come by as gk already

No, it's not just the AV aspect, the melta dread was incredibly good at line breaking and bleeding your opponent, esp eldar/sm/chaos because it killed a model with every shot and had an awesome melee special, and it synergized well with interceptors and made them actually a viable purchase in t2.

And it forced your opponent to invest in hard AV, which is bad against the future GK roster. It delayed the inevitable plasma/power melee spam that is needed to deal with the terminators.

[Dark Riku]

The picture shown by Orkfaeller is a smoke launcher and can't fire anything else.
(fluff/TT)

Edit: Ofcource what Caeltos says below ^^

[Caeltos]

Let's pretend it can do more for gameplay sake.

[Orkfaeller]

Let's pretend it can do more for gameplay sake.

But does it really need that thing so badly that we have to make stuff up?

Cant you just give it an underslung Stormbolter if it needs some kind of soft range weapon?

[Ace of Swords]

It's a grenade launcher that launches explosive grenades instead of smoke ones, I don't see the problem.

[Orkfaeller]

It's a grenade launcher that launches explosive grenades instead of smoke ones, I don't see the problem.

Its a Smoke Launcher, its even in the name, and you can find it on all Imperial Vehicles for exactly that: putting down smoke screens.

Its not exactly some weird, sci-fi-y tech. That stuff is as old as tank warfare itself.
And they even look like that in reallife, because they are ment to fire basically in all directions.

I just fail to see why we need a random fantasy grenade launcher on the GKDread.

Does he need a range weapon to pick off models, why not put a Stormbolter on it?
Or is he in need of an AoE, anti blob weapon, then why not mount assault grenade launchers on it or a heavy flamer. Heck, even a set of hunter killer missles makes more sense.



And we have the assets for all of that stuff.

[Caeltos]

I just fail to see why we need a random fantasy grenade launcher on the GKDread.

Does he need a range weapon to pick off models, why not put a Stormbolter on it?
Or is he in need of an AoE, anti blob weapon, then why not mount assault grenade launchers on it or a heavy flamer. Heck, even a set of hunter killer missles makes more sense.

The goal is to furthermore expand the weapon arsenal and grant it supplimentary ranged-damage in the AoE department. One thing that GK has generally abit of low amounts of sources.

Explosive_pvp is a good modifier for this, hench a grenade functionality type of weapon is the best option to go. Flamers are far more specialized, and doesn't transition well to specific matchups.

From my understanding, Hunter-Killers are dedicated anti-vehicle weapons. It's an interesting possibility for an implementation, but only merely as a soft-vehicle counter, depending if it's needed for the faction itself in matchups.

I just did my research wrong on the smoke-launchers, I actually thought when I looked at it and read a while back, I simply just assumed it would have the option to fire regular grenades as well. If it can be just a model-swap from grenade-launcher to mounted assault grenades and there's no issues with animations and compatibility, then I'm perfectly fine with going through with that.

The problem is that, Lulgrim I know has tried to make this work for a long time, and it just seems frustrating to just scrap the project at this stage when we've come so far to conclude it.

[Bahamut]

The goal is to furthermore expand the weapon arsenal and grant it supplimentary ranged-damage in the AoE department. One thing that GK has generally abit of low amounts of sources.

I would say GK is most likely the race with the most AoE sources actually. More than half the GK roster is capable of AoE

IST nade launchers
Purgators (both flamer and psycannons)
Flamers on SS, GKI and terminators
Flamer and plasma cannon on dread
AoE plasma damage thingy on purifiers
Smite on GK libby
several wargear options for bro captain
hellfury strike

[Caeltos]

The goal is to furthermore expand the weapon arsenal and grant it supplimentary ranged-damage in the AoE department. One thing that GK has generally abit of low amounts of sources.

I would say GK is most likely the race with the most AoE sources actually. More than half the GK roster is capable of AoE

IST nade launchers
Purgators (both flamer and psycannons)
Flamers on SS, GKI and terminators
Flamer and plasma cannon on dread
AoE plasma damage thingy on purifiers
Smite on GK libby
several wargear options for bro captain
hellfury strike

You're mentioning relatively light/weak AoE sources. And realistically trying to incorporate them in a build is alot more difficult then it is for other factions.

partwise with the goal is to ensure transitional play, for ex. Not being reliant on IST nade launchers, and then tap on the plasma guns, and compliment the AoE with a potential Grenade Launcher Dreadnought damage etc;

This gives more flexibility, whereas in previous version - it just furthermore suppliments an uneeded amount of damage which you might already have the sufficient sum of AoE damage to "manage". None of it is is neccasarily heavy-damage, but it's reliable.

The burst/sustained AoE dps compared to other factions is quite distinguishable, and Plasma Cannon Dread is the only real comparison you can, and even on that part - it's not great, but it's getting tweaks that is mostly quality of life changes, which makes it easier to land and more predictable.