Lag wrote:Commissar Vocaloid wrote:Also, NM are just fine. I think they're a fantastic addition to a lot of builds, in particular and as it has been pointed out, CL. That being said, the fact that they can de-setup your setup team if fine as well - if they are able to march themselves close enough to do that without retaliation, I think there should be some reward/incentive for doing something so risky.
Just making them stop firing would be a nice soft counter. You already have a hard counter (Raptors who can engage and deal enough damage to make them retreat) so having two hard counters, as it is right now, is a bit too much.
I had this come up in the past about whether or not something was classified as a hard counter to something, and this feels like it'd be another one of those cases. I don't think it's right to classify them as hard counters despite being able to de-set them. It's crazy when you look at it at that context simply, but the reason I say that is you would not be able to counter the setup team with noise marines alone, much like you would raptors. Raptors can close the gap on their own without having to do anything like flanking, whereas Noise Marines require the support to march up and use their blaster.
It might seem a little too much that they can de-set any setup team, but I still stand that if they're that close to hit you with that thing, there should be a reward/incentive for doing such a ballsy move. Save for the CL (who himself can also run in to try and tie up the setup team), I think PC and CS would have a lot more difficulty in pulling off the counter play with NM. In fact, if you're playing against a Sorc and you've accounted for his tic play, almost every faction detector's also have a means of backing off NM from range save for Tyranids/Chaos, who'd have a more direct melee approach. Assuming you even need to use their abilities, of course.
