Drop Pod - Make up your mind

[Arbit]

Part of the issue with the ability seems to be giving an appropriate req cost for an ability that gives "free" reinforcements, which is further complicated by throwing a tac squad on top. I wonder if it's possible to give an instant reinforce but still charge the normal cost for the reinforcements? Then the pod could hang around and give a passive buff, like 10-15% reduced damage/increased damage (maybe both) in a radius of 20 or so because Space Marines are inspired by the sight of a drop pod or something. Also get rid of the reinforcement because continually reinforcing off a one-shot drop pod doesn't make any sense and it overlaps too much with the TM beacon. Say ~150 red for cost.

The idea behind the global would be to quickly turn an engagement around if you can get the timing down right (the pod still takes forever to arrive, right?) or you can use in between engagements to bolster your forces and establish defenses.

[Dark Riku]

Yeah..., because CDB and call ins like warriors that reinforce everyone for free are allowed to exist.
And putting 20 Orks in a truk and reinforcing of a transport makes sense, rite...

[Black Relic]

I think the spawning of the tac squad should just be an option. Or a spawn that happens when you have no tactical marines on the field. Keeping the use of the global as it was. And giving a way that help "pick" you up after a bad engagement with the spawn of the tac squad.

So revert the global cost. And add a requirement that check to see if a player has a tac squad. If they don't. The tac squad will spawn. Then add a sub_action the the spawn that modifies the players resources so the tac squad is not free. How about giving that a go?

I still view this as a great option. Drop Pod will function as it used to. And a Tac squad wouldn't spawn so long as you have a tac squad present on the field. And you can modify a player resources when the squad is spawned. So the Drop Pod cost can be change to what it used to be, and whenever a Tac Squad with Serg. is spawned 200 req can be taken from the player, without changing the Drop Pods initial global cost.

[Dark Riku]

What if you do want a tac squad and already have one?
Or what if you don't want an extra tac squad and have non atm?
And what if you don't have the extra resources after the drop?
etc..

[Black Relic]

Put the Tacs squad option to spawn from the drop pod. Like the HQ. Of course spawning the Tac then would have a build time if you wanted it and the option the spawn one in wouldn't be allowed forever (20 sec after the pod hits the ground). That would then solve most of the problems. Drop Pod in invincible for a time when it hits the ground. Maybe that's when the option to spawn the one tac squad can occur.

[Arbit]

Yeah..., because CDB and call ins like warriors that reinforce everyone for free are allowed to exist.
And putting 20 Orks in a truk and reinforcing of a transport makes sense, rite...

I know that they exist. Could you please not assume that I don't know the basics of the game? Speaking of which, the warrior call in doesn't reinforce for free - you have to pay for the reinforcements (just labbed it).

I'm proposing something different in an effort to make something more generally applicable. I'm suggesting removing the free reinforcements because SM tends to not lose models as much as orks or nids do, not because "free" reinforcements would necessarily be OP for SM. Also, the problem with the current global (and some past versions of the global) has been that it's trying to do too much at once.

And yes, an ork trukk reinforcing stuff makes more sense than an immobile drop pod. You can rationalize it by saying more boyz get in the trukk when the trukk goes back to base or something. A drop pod is an expendable one-shot effect for delivering marines to the front. It has no capability to go back to the HQ and refill itself. And if it has a teleporter beacon in it, why bother with a giant drop pod in the first place? Just drop a beacon. Anyway, that's a bit of a tangent and my greater concern is that it overlaps with the TM's beacon.

[Ace of Swords]

Part of the issue with the ability seems to be giving an appropriate req cost for an ability that gives "free" reinforcements, which is further complicated by throwing a tac squad on top

And this is pretty much the whole issue, that's why the title says "make your mind", I've already wrote this, it's an hybrid good for nothing atm, either revert back to the old one or make it a specialized call in, SG as proposed could work for 150-200 red and 400 req, pretty muck like all the others call-in work or used to (see warp spiders, retail kommandos etc)

In other words, a T2 squad for a decent req price but power cost traded for Red.

[Bahamut]

I always thought it was a bad idea, but a lot of people liked it when Caeltos opened a threat about it before 2.3 release

Certantly what you want from the global is the drop pod for the ability to reinforce on the field without having to retreat back to base, the extra tac squad most likely will mess with your pop/eco and just makes the global desirable only in like 2 or 3 specific situations

[Dark Riku]

And yes, an ork trukk reinforcing stuff makes more sense than an immobile drop pod. You can rationalize it by saying more boyz get in the trukk when the trukk goes back to base or something. A drop pod is an expendable one-shot effect for delivering marines to the front. It has no capability to go back to the HQ and refill itself. And if it has a teleporter beacon in it, why bother with a giant drop pod in the first place? Just drop a beacon. Anyway, that's a bit of a tangent and my greater concern is that it overlaps with the TM's beacon.

Gonna argue logic in 40K? XD
No, it doesn't make sense at all that 21 boys fit in the truk for starters and that there are even more inside to reinforce the squads outside nor does it make sense for Orks to patiently wait inside a transport when they are close to anything. Why bother with a drop pod for a beacon? How about the beacon won't survive a drop through the atmosphere?


Now for the actual topic:

I know that they exist. Could you please not assume that I don't know the basics of the game? Speaking of which, the warrior call in doesn't reinforce for free - you have to pay for the reinforcements (just labbed it).

This is exactly why I assume people don't know anything about the game because you and many others don't.
The drop reinforces everything FOR FREE and gives you a reinforcing aura afterwards! Lab better -.-

[Sneery_Thug]

And what about dropping sternguard veterans and remove them completely as an upgrade for tacs?

That actually sounds pretty good.

I support this - remove sternguards as an upgrade and put them into the drop pod.

[Sneery_Thug]

... Also get rid of the reinforcement because continually reinforcing off a one-shot drop pod doesn't make any sense and it overlaps too much with the TM beacon. Say ~150 red for cost.

Don't forget that the TM is not the only SM hero. FC and Apo do need this reinforcement possibility.

And yes, since the "pod still takes forever to arrive" you can use it at the beginning of an engageent, but only if it calls in a squad (sterns for example). Even if it doesn't reinforce at once for free - the additional squad can help you to hold ground (using ATSKNF?) as long as you reinforce your squads from the beacon. Otherwise it should arrive much faster to reinforce your army in time (actually was a problem of mine: till the drop pod arrived - my whole army was just dead. But it could also happen because I'm a noob.-)

[Kithrixx]

I had myself a bit of an idea regarding the drop pod.

• Remove the Drop Pod's Tactical Squad.
• If an Infantry unit (Tacs, Salts, Devs, Plas Devs, Scouts, Libby) is being trained, using the Drop Pod will finish training the unit instantly and deploy the unit at the Drop Pod's location.
• Adjust the Drop Pod's cost. My ballpark estimate would be 200/200.
• Allow the deployment of a Dread via the Drop Pod when Blessing of the Omnissiah is active (requiring an investment of 200/350 in abilities alone, total cost of 650/120/350 when factoring in the cost of the unit).

What do you folks think?

That would be extremely pointless.

How do you figure? Unless I'm missing something, it'd be what both parties want - plain battlefield reinforcement (the old Drop Pod) and the ability to deploy infantry at the frontlines (the tacs in the current one).

[Ace of Swords]

I had myself a bit of an idea regarding the drop pod.

• Remove the Drop Pod's Tactical Squad.
• If an Infantry unit (Tacs, Salts, Devs, Plas Devs, Scouts, Libby) is being trained, using the Drop Pod will finish training the unit instantly and deploy the unit at the Drop Pod's location.
• Adjust the Drop Pod's cost. My ballpark estimate would be 200/200.
• Allow the deployment of a Dread via the Drop Pod when Blessing of the Omnissiah is active (requiring an investment of 200/350 in abilities alone, total cost of 650/120/350 when factoring in the cost of the unit).

What do you folks think?

That would be extremely pointless.

How do you figure? Unless I'm missing something, it'd be what both parties want - plain battlefield reinforcement (the old Drop Pod) and the ability to deploy infantry at the frontlines (the tacs in the current one).

Nobody wants it for the ability to drop units anywhere on the battlefield, you use call ins for specifical purposes such as overwhelming your opponent with squads or replacing a loss.

Don't you realize how stupid it would be for a call in to have to pay the full cost of the unit ONTOP of a red and addition req cost?

[Kithrixx]

Nobody wants it for the ability to drop units anywhere on the battlefield, you use call ins for specifical purposes such as overwhelming your opponent with squads or replacing a loss.

Apparently it's more than "nobody" because that's exactly what it is right now with the Tac squad.

Don't you realize how stupid it would be for a call in to have to pay the full cost of the unit ONTOP of a red and addition req cost?

The Red/Req cost is there because it's free and instant reinforcement. You would be paying full price for the units because A) you would be bypassing build times and B) you would be dropping said unit at any point on the field. Regardless of what you may personally feel about point B, bypassing travel time for unit deployment is very useful and can be the turning point for any engagement, especially when it coincides with reinforcing all nearby squads.

[Black Relic]

Nobody wants it for the ability to drop units anywhere on the battlefield, you use call ins for specifical purposes such as overwhelming your opponent with squads or replacing a loss.

Apparently it's more than "nobody" because that's exactly what it is right now with the Tac squad.

Don't you realize how stupid it would be for a call in to have to pay the full cost of the unit ONTOP of a red and addition req cost?

The Red/Req cost is there because it's free and instant reinforcement. You would be paying full price for the units because A) you would be bypassing build times and B) you would be dropping said unit at any point on the field. Regardless of what you may personally feel about point B, bypassing travel time for unit deployment is very useful and can be the turning point for any engagement, especially when it coincides with reinforcing all nearby squads.

So you want me to pay req and a decent amount of red just so I still pay extra req and power for a squad? What are you a Democrat (jokes)? But seriously that would make the global absolutely useless! If you want to spawn a unit you creating (take ASM) that would be 650/50/200. WHAT!?!? Unless its Vanguards or Sternguards (where they aren't full price R450/R250) then its worth it.

[Kithrixx]

So you want me to pay req and a decent amount of red just so I still pay extra req and power for a squad? What are you a Democrat (jokes)? But seriously that would make the global absolutely useless! If you want to spawn a unit you creating (take ASM) that would be 650/50/200. WHAT!?!? Unless its Vanguards or Sternguards (where they aren't full price R450/R250) then its worth it.

There is no extra cost, though? Like, I really don't see where you're getting that.

[BaptismByLoli]

It's useless because you need to pay a hefty fee for something that used to be 'cheap'. To begin with;

650 Req is absurb.
Firstly, you got your normal Tacs which right now, drops at 200 Req and 200 Red IIRC (Been playing Eldar and IG atm).

And now the suggestion here is saying that the Drop Pod cost be increased by 450/50/0. The reasoning behind that 450/50/0 increase in resources is because of how it gives you free and instant reinforcements.

At most, you need less than 10 power to reinforce a SM squad. And at most, it requires 83 Req to reinforce an ASM squad. Tacs cost 75 Req. So lets say you lost 4 Tac Model and 2 ASM squad.

Drop pod will be a hindrance/useless cause firstly, you're paying more than what is needed and secondly, after having spent that many Req on reinforcing, you are still shooting yourself in the foot by calling in that Tac Squad which is adding upkeep into your already Req-starved economy cause of all that reinforcing.

Past dropship simply required 100 Red and 200 Req or maybe I got it in reverse or something.

Anywho, you see the point I'm trying to say here?

P.S. If your suggestion includes Termies, then it's simply too situational and expensive that again, it is useless.

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

[Nergal]

Take off the reinforcement stuff and put a Dready on the pod... what you vet. guys think about that?

[Black Relic]

^No thanks. I would like to have a forward base type of thing. Plus, that would make the Techmarine's Ven Dread drop seem less unique.

But I would like an option to spawn in ONE fully upgraded tac squad (no weapon upgrade though cost 560 req) without it automatically spawning. Still keeping the reinforcement action when its dropped and it keep the spawner.

[Torpid]

The higher the initial cost involved on the drop pod is the less useful the reinforce on demand feature is and therefore the greater the disparity between the drop prod's cost and the cost of the unit it produces when dropped must be.

[BaptismByLoli]

The higher the initial cost involved on the drop pod is the less useful the reinforce on demand feature is and therefore the greater the disparity between the drop prod's cost and the cost of the unit it produces when dropped must be.

^ This

[Nergal]

So, maybe a Drop Pod that just reinforce and heal on landing?

[Barrogh]

Also get rid of the reinforcement because continually reinforcing off a one-shot drop pod doesn't make any sense...

Well, we shouldn't get rid of gameplay feature because "sense", especially when it makes a perfect one: nothing stops pods from carrying locator beacon / teleporter homer.

Put the Tacs squad option to spawn from the drop pod. Like the HQ. Of course spawning the Tac then would have a build time if you wanted it and the option the spawn one in wouldn't be allowed forever (20 sec after the pod hits the ground). That would then solve most of the problems. Drop Pod in invincible for a time when it hits the ground. Maybe that's when the option to spawn the one tac squad can occur.

I've suggested this one like 2 months ago. Well, in the end we've got both. I was a-okay with that because I really wasn't a fan of removing army-wide reinforcement, but I dunno about tacs.

[Arbit]

And yes, an ork trukk reinforcing stuff makes more sense than an immobile drop pod. You can rationalize it by saying more boyz get in the trukk when the trukk goes back to base or something. A drop pod is an expendable one-shot effect for delivering marines to the front. It has no capability to go back to the HQ and refill itself. And if it has a teleporter beacon in it, why bother with a giant drop pod in the first place? Just drop a beacon. Anyway, that's a bit of a tangent and my greater concern is that it overlaps with the TM's beacon.

Gonna argue logic in 40K? XD
No, it doesn't make sense at all that 21 boys fit in the truk for starters and that there are even more inside to reinforce the squads outside nor does it make sense for Orks to patiently wait inside a transport when they are close to anything. Why bother with a drop pod for a beacon? How about the beacon won't survive a drop through the atmosphere?

There's arguing about fluff, like "a guardsmen lasgun could never penetrate a ceremite adamantium cyber carapace of a 14th level Space Marine hurrdurr" kind of stuff, and then talking about how basic stuff like trucks work. In a typical engagement, five or six orks might hop out. It looks fine. Trucks carry dudes, and they get out to help their buddies. I don't really care if orks are patient enough in the fluff to wait. Given the context of the squad reinforcing mechanic present in the game, it's about how I would expect a truck to operate.

A drop pod is more akin to an airdrop. An airplane drops some equipment, supplies, and/or people, and that's it. Having people continually come out of a drop pod doesn't make any sense. As to the pod housing a teleporter beacon, I'm pretty sure it's possible to design a delivery vehicle that doesn't involve a gigantic empty cavity that you can fit whole squads of spacemarines or dreadnoughts into. Putting a people and equipment on a pod that is carrying a piece of equipment that obviates the need for putting people and equipment on a pod in the first place is silly in a common sense sort of way.

If you don't want to talk about this, then don't talk about it. Tiny text and emoticons aren't needed.

Now for the actual topic:

I know that they exist. Could you please not assume that I don't know the basics of the game? Speaking of which, the warrior call in doesn't reinforce for free - you have to pay for the reinforcements (just labbed it).

This is exactly why I assume people don't know anything about the game because you and many others don't.
The drop reinforces everything FOR FREE and gives you a reinforcing aura afterwards! Lab better -.-

You're right - I labbed it by killing one or two hormagaunts, used the global, saw my resources go down and the reinforcement counter do it's little animation and figured that was good enough. The global creates a reinforcement aura a few seconds before the free reinforcement event, so it's possible to buy reinforcements and cheat yourself out of free models. The tooltips and Codex don't mention the free reinforcements (calling Windu ) either. The nonsensical way that the effects are applied kind of makes me wonder if the free reinforcement effect is intended.

Anyway, this discussion much like the one above is pretty much irrelevant to the main point I was making. I never said free reinforcements were too OP for SM or the concept of free reinforcements doesn't exist, only that it's difficult to establish a fair cost for them and that I would rather make a global that's more applicable i.e. something you use more than once a game, if that. As far as this proving that I don't know anything about the game, your knowledge of the game isn't exactly infallible either.

[Dark Riku]

It totally makes sense for drop pods to reinforce. SM's drop freaking everything with pods.
They even use it to drop weapon platforms...


Your bad labbing is supposed to be right there?
Mt knowledge isn't infallible, that's impossible, but it's pretty damn fucking big.

[Black Relic]

The nid drop does initially reinforce all your units for free. Indrid casted a vid with you in the game, and Ser Topi used the global to reinforce ALL his nids free of cost. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmIUJZHETqo 19:45

[Wise Windu]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=670&p=28687#p28687

[appiah4]

Remove Sternguard as upgrades from tacs, make drop pods deploy sternguard squads and allow reinforcements.

[Barrogh]

Remove Sternguard as upgrades from tacs, make drop pods deploy sternguard squads and allow reinforcements.

Yup, it's unfortunate that SM still can field stuff without burning red, gotta fix that asap.

[Aertes]

SM's drop freaking everything with pods.
They even use it to drop weapon platforms...

In the boardgame, drop pods are immobile vehicles in their own right, it could be an interesting idea to turn the Drop Pod into a kind of turret in Dow II:
When the drop pod lands, it reinforces nearby marine units, then it stays where it is as a turret with a Storm Bolter, upgradable to a Death Wind launcher (a short range frag missile launcher, not specially powerful but useful against hordes of light infantry).