Dawn of War Codex

ehh , it is nids we are talking about , they very same race in which a well executed flank with 1 -2 spore mines can very easily wipe out whole squads of heretics / guardsmen etc.


splatter / miasma is deadly vs light units , but it should be its a double investment to counter light invantry blobs.

you do fetid armor plus mark of nurgle on a pc and your light units will be neutralized as well.

Fetid+MoN, yh with such a slow commander.

saltychipmunk wrote:ehh , it is nids we are talking about , they very same race in which a well executed flank with 1 -2 spore mines can very easily wipe out whole squads of heretics / guardsmen etc.


splatter / miasma is deadly vs light units , but it should be its a double investment to counter light invantry blobs.

you do fetid armor plus mark of nurgle on a pc and your light units will be neutralized as well.

Splatter is power melee.

Kvek wrote:Fetid+MoN, yh with such a slow commander.

So? Point still stands. It will make short work of incoming light armored units.
Because defensive commander and all :p Not a CL.

That Torpid Gamer wrote:So why is right that a commander who has 2.5 more speed than the PC by default (not including sinew or towers) as well providing fantastic mobility for his race be just as effective as a melee counter as the PC is?

because the PC and RA are very different heroes with very different armies that back them up.
Balance is not a discussion of "X unit does this better than Y unit does, so X unit needs a nerf." You need to look at army composition, cost, positioning, counters, different builds, etc

Not trying to sound elitist or arrogant, but that's how it works.

dance commander wrote:

saltychipmunk wrote:ehh , it is nids we are talking about , they very same race in which a well executed flank with 1 -2 spore mines can very easily wipe out whole squads of heretics / guardsmen etc.


splatter / miasma is deadly vs light units , but it should be its a double investment to counter light invantry blobs.

you do fetid armor plus mark of nurgle on a pc and your light units will be neutralized as well.

Splatter is power melee.

it may be power melee , but it like the thunder hammer is usually taken for its anti blob potential. the power melee component is just gravy to be honest and is to be expected since it is a t2 wargear, the power melee component would be out of place if it were say a t1 wargear. regardless My point being is that it plus miasma should logically face roll blobs of light melee infantry and even unsupported heavy infantry. both war gears are fully t2 .

the ravener also has to give up any ranged / anti vehicle synergy he would have gotten from using a corrosive devourer and the damage synapse.

is it really any more threatening than say the teleporting hammer fc / asm or the absolution brother commander + tele spam interceptors?
or the chaos lord double heretic rush vs a tech marine in the early game.

when things in this game are min maxed and applied to the proper situation , alot of things can seem very unfair.

This guy is counter-initiation, therefore his damage synapse is still mighty useful on a melee build. The point is however that he is an extremely mobile hero compared to the other offensive heroes while also aiding in his own force's mobility via tunnels and so he shouldn't have as much or even nearly as much straight up combat potential as offensive heroes, just look at other heroes of a similar type -> apo, chaos sorceror, farseer, lord general. None do the dps that the RA can do.

i am still not completely convinced that is enough to say that build is op.

but i think it is unfair to compare the ravener to those heroes. Because they have different wargear with very different strengths.

like the farseers doom / ghost helm combo that is a monster hero killer.
the chaos sorcers flame armor which will turn a heretic squad into a nid blob murdering machine in t1

the apoths puri rights or puri vials which are devestating when combined with asm.

even the lord general has a massive advantage in teh sheer utility his wargears offer him.

wana increase the range of all your units , check
wana make them immune to suppression , check
wana make them highly damage resistance check
wana make them faster check
wana heal them , check
wana make them shoot faster, check
wana tank turret as a gun implace ment , check.

so yeah they dont kill like the ravener , but kill power isnt the only rout to victory. The synergies of those commanders with their units is legendary and in many cases will out right trump the acid splatters killing power with ease.

I never said those commanders weren't useful, but don't you think the mere presence of tyranid tunnels can turn around the entire game, because it can. The mobility they offer is amazing and when you add burrow traps and all the damage synapse to the ravener alpha I see him as a support hero. The thing with this build is that it allows him to become plague champion like at defence, while simultaneously retaining all of his support aspects, namely tunnels and damage synapse. For this reason it just needs to be a bit toned down. A price increase would be one way of doing this.

true the tunnels if left to their own divices will turn a game , but the same is true if you let a network of spires be built up on vic points or if you let eldar build its webways.


it doesn't take much to deal with them , even having your capping squads go around tunnel hunting while capping stuff will be enough to to mitigate most of the benefits tunnels have.

I doubt a price increase would fix the issues you have with it. From how you describe it, the mere presence or absence of that particular wargear seems to decide the fate of whole games for you. In that case a price adjustment wont work , it will either be too cheap for you or to expensive for the nid player and the tipping point would probably bounce all over the place.

what if you just made it replace the ability to build tunnels or something since obviously your real issue with it is infact its combination of damage + the mobility of the ravener. So it would only be logical to either make it lesss damaging or the ravener less mobile as a means to address your concerns.

I think the problem might be that (heaven forbid!) SM players might have to initiate combat with the RA in a different manner and they just really don't want to give up that ASM dominance. And tbh, I completely understand that feeling. I can remember when Sluggas and Stormboyz nob leader had melee heavy and I thought I was going to die when it got taken away from both of them.

1. Where are you getting it from this is only a "vs SM issue" people are talking about?
(I'm not saying there is an issue with the specific RA performance, just to be clear.)
2. Stormboy nob leader has heavy melee.

Yes I know he has melee_heavy. If you remember way back, the stormboy and sluggaboy nobs both had melee_heavy, and then it was taken away from both of them. Only since elite mod has the stormboy nob had his AV potential returned to him.

Also of note, I just played a full length game with paranoid kami last night and he used a standard SM build vs me (scout tac scout asm). I was RA and I built my army to encourage him to jump into my blob whilst my RA kitted with acid splatter, reinforced chitin, and burrow traps. Acid splatter did a decent job against the ASM who I was able to isolate from the other forces for a solid 5 seconds or so, but in all honesty, its not nearly as scary as people are making it out to be.
1 game obviously isn't going to be the definitive answer on any balance question, but I pretty much orchestrated the aforementioned situation to a T, and even so, I was unable to see how this thing is too strong for the RA to wield. Kami's thunder hammer did a much better job against my units and I was never able to wipe his ASM with retreat kills even though I had synapse towers almost everywhere. He was also able to focus down my RA pretty quickly if I got away from my blob.

Sorry, I thought you were referring to current Elite status of the Stormboys.

With Sternguard Veterans SM should not have any issue dealing with RA. If there's a problem you might see it clearer by player Eldar or Ork.

Tex wrote:
Also of note, I just played a full length game with paranoid kami last night and he used a standard SM build vs me (scout tac scout asm). I was RA and I built my army to encourage him to jump into my blob whilst my RA kitted with acid splatter, reinforced chitin, and burrow traps. Acid splatter did a decent job against the ASM who I was able to isolate from the other forces for a solid 5 seconds or so, but in all honesty, its not nearly as scary as people are making it out to be.
1 game obviously isn't going to be the definitive answer on any balance question, but I pretty much orchestrated the aforementioned situation to a T, and even so, I was unable to see how this thing is too strong for the RA to wield. Kami's thunder hammer did a much better job against my units and I was never able to wipe his ASM with retreat kills even though I had synapse towers almost everywhere. He was also able to focus down my RA pretty quickly if I got away from my blob.

this is true , but from experience i have found that the situation that alot of the anti acid players argue happens (to me anyway) when you do a full on melee build, for example 1 squad of raveners + a squad of hormagaunts and then the splatter ( which is a pretty well rounded build when you have two termas in support

those two squads combined with the acid splatter will effectively kill off any 3 model heavy infantry squad if they dont retreat before the ravener disruptive jump. If you so choose and add the warriors with the melee synapse to your blob then one can effectively weather multiple aoes which most other races cant.

i suppose then it is that presence of it and the fact that you can get multiple high damage and or high speed units to aid in the retreat kills.

sm doesn't have good retreat killers to go with the thunder hammer, sure you can argue you can get asm and a libby and use their movement abilities but it is no real comparison to all the melee potential contained in upgraded hormas and the raveners + acid rav alpha.