Re-Evaluation of Dire Avengers

[boss]

da were fine before this stupid da leader was moved to t1 I don't get why he was even put into t1 makes no fucking sense at all.

[Torpid]

da were fine before this stupid da leader was moved to t1 I don't get why he was even put into t1 makes no fucking sense at all.

Because upgrades cannot grant detection without adding a new model. And rangers are shitty in the current eldar meta. So eldar had a detection problem. DA were the apparent solution.

[boss]

make rangers not shit then and give battle equipment the detection thing pls don't make a t2 leader t1 to fix that problem dear god it sounds like a relic thing would do

[Torpid]

make rangers not shit then and give battle equipment the detection thing pls don't make a t2 leader t1 to fix that problem dear god it sounds like a relic thing would do

Sounds like a Boss thing to not read a comment properly.

It isn't possible to attach detection to an upgrade. There needs to be a new model. Therefore battle equipment or even a new novel ugprade purely for detection in t1 are not possible without it being lore-breaking silly - by adding a new, redundant model that just does nothing. So long as the model does something there will be balance implications.

How do you suggest making rangers not shit?

This is the paradox of eldar t1 balance atm,

One solution I thought of was to make rangers a 6 pop squad costing 210/20 and doing about 60% of the damage they do now. Very clearly a support unit that would encourage longer eldar t1s and not have too great upkeep or sunk costs to stop them being buy-able mostly as detection.

I don't think it's a big loss as atm they are mostly used for their sight range and abilities, not raw damage.

Then the DA exarch could be moved back to t2 as their t1 detection would be fine.

[Adeptus Noobus]

I don't think further reducing their damage is the solution here. In my opinion they should just be reverted to their old state (no suppression/higher damage). Rangers were supposed to inflict economic losses so that they can actually keep up in tech somewhat. Now they are just an annoyance but nothing that would sacre of units or something. Their worst mu right now is vs KNob. They dont one-shot models, and they bleed instantly. Normally I would not want such a squad but vs the KNob they are kinda mandatory so you are stuck with a detecion unit that does negligible damage.

TL;DR: Give Rangers back some of their damage potential (not all of it) and scratch the courage damage again.

[Torpid]

I don't think further reducing their damage is the solution here. In my opinion they should just be reverted to their old state (no suppression/higher damage). Rangers were supposed to inflict economic losses so that they can actually keep up in tech somewhat. Now they are just an annoyance but nothing that would sacre of units or something. Their worst mu right now is vs KNob. They dont one-shot models, and they bleed instantly. Normally I would not want such a squad but vs the KNob they are kinda mandatory so you are stuck with a detecion unit that does negligible damage.

TL;DR: Give Rangers back some of their damage potential (not all of it) and scratch the courage damage again.

Either they one shot scouts and upgraded termagants or they don't and are mostly useless.

I don't know how others feel about restoring rangers but they break team games entirely. When I used to play 3v3 retail competitively our team HAD to run 1 eldar for three things in this order - 1) Immolator to counter turrets/beacons. 2) Rangers to counter any enemy snipers 3) Webway gates for mobility and healing on field.

I really don't want dual rangers to the only thing eldar go in 3v3 again myself. Plus it was just lame as hell to fight in 1v1 too and super stron gon some maps like siwal and judgment and shit on others like jarilo's and fedrid.

At only 210/20 they hardly break the bank for an eldar to fight off a KN and right now I see eldar playing vs KN just going 3x DA, shees into fast falcon, abusing the hell out of the OP DAs and not getting any t1.5 and still doing fine at a high level!

[Adeptus Noobus]

The question at hand is not wether 210/20 is too expensive or not but what we want Rangers to do. In my most humble opinion they are supposed to detect but also inflict those crucial model losses that Eldar needed to stay on field somewhat. The problem with this is that Dire Avengers are now so strong that staying on the field and keeping map presence is not really an issue any longer. We can however all agree that this is not what we want/expect from Dire Avengers. I believe that the Eldar design does indeed need to be reverted to a state before T1 Exarchs but with the neccessary fine-tuning of the damage values for Rangers and pricing for Dire Avengers. I would really like to see more viable builds with Eldar again instead of just:

• DA - Shees - DA - Shuriken - 2x Exarchs - Banshee Aspect - T2
• 3x DA - Shuriken - Exarchs - (Shuriken) - T2

It is just boring and turns Eldar into an a-move race which they just should not be.